Hamilton is not a movie and shouldn't be on top 250.

Hamilton is not a movie. It is a capture of a live performance, like films about rock concerts or stand-up shows.

Despite the good reviews it will not be nominated for any Academy Award because, again, it is not a movie.
It shouldn't be on top 250 alongside real movies like The Godfather or Citizen Kane, where all elements were put together to create MOVIES, which are something entirely different from a live theatre performance with cameras.
It shouldn't appear on the results when we search for feature films. I suggest to you guys from IMDb to create a SHOW category to include live theatre plays like this, music concerts and stand-up shows. The films under this category would not appear on the results when we search for feature films, something that already work with documentaries, short films and so on.
Please, keep the site well organized for the real movies fans.
Thanks and sorry for my english.

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Michelle

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18.5K Messages

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324K Points

2 years ago

Hi Angelo -

Regarding "Hamilton", as this was released as a musical film it is listed accurately on the site as a feature film, it was not released as a "special" but rather as a standalone film title; note that it was originally intended to be theatrically released but due to Covid-19, the decision was to release the film via the Disney+ streaming platform.

I hope this helps clarify!

This comment was created from this reply

Maxence_G

4.5K Messages

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71.8K Points

6 years ago

It is a great idea, but IMDb already answered that demand.

https://community-imdb.sprinklr.com/conversations/data-issues-policy-discussions/about-hamilton/5f4a7cb48815453dba0ff736

Personally, my idea is that films strictly released on streaming services should be tagged as "TV Movie" since series strictly released on streaming services are tagged as "TV Series".

You can't consider a streaming service to be both a tv channel and a theater.

(edited)

angelopilla47

131 Messages

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1.8K Points

I agree with you, but besides that there's the fact that Hamilton is a capture of a live performance. It shouldn't be categorize as a movie even if it were released in theatres.

6 years ago

angelopilla47

131 Messages

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1.8K Points

This is not what I'm talking about. It is not about the release platform. Hamilton is not a movie. It is a live performance captured by cameras.

6 years ago

jeorj_euler

10.7K Messages

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226.6K Points

6 years ago

Seems like a matter of semantics, and as we well know, IMDb follows a broad definition of "movie". Also, the various media are blending together over the course of time. Separate as they may be, they now have the capacity to adopt each others formats or other properties. Television (and streaming articles) can be watched at the cinema, and someday this may be common. Cinemas can be created in homes, and someday this may be common. Furthermore, looking back at history, it should be apparent that moving-making ways started out as variations of play-making ways.

angelopilla47

131 Messages

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1.8K Points

6 years ago

Do you know why Hamilton is not appearing in ANY list of 2020 best movies? Because IT IS NOT a movie.
Do you know why Hamilton will not receive ANY Oscar nominations? Because IT IS NOT a movie.

Only IMDB is considering this recording of a live performance as a movie. It don't belong in Top 250.

I miss the times when IMDB knew what a movie was.

As I said before, create some "show" category to stand-up comedy, music concerts and live theatre to avoid this kind of thing to appear in top 250 or when we search for feature films.

Sorry, but I will insist. Thanks.

Note: This comment was created from a merged conversation originally titled Hamilton and the Oscars

Gravity98

31 Messages

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514 Points

The Disney Plus Release of Hamilton should not be included among IMDb's list of the top 250 films. Regardless of praise for the show, it is a recording of a Broadway performance and not a film in the same way that The Godfather (1972) is a film, for example.

Calling Hamilton the 19th greatest film is like calling a scan/photo of a great drawing one of the greatest photos ever taken. The image may be of a great drawing, and therefor contain the aspects of great drawing, but that does not mean it contains the aspects of great photography.

What makes a drawing great is in many ways different from what makes a photo great. Similarly, what makes a stage musical great is different from what makes a film great.

Hamilton is widely regarded as a great live musical, but that does not mean recording it on video will translate it to a great film. Hamilton lacks many of the artistic nuances of great filmmaking, such as lighting, lens choice, story-motivated camera movement, camera angle and camera height, subtle, nuanced acting and blocking, sets and art direction, color grading, sound effects and mixing, and using precise editing to tell the story.

On the surface, it seems that IMDb's policies should support my argument against recordings of other mediums' productions making the list. At the bottom of the Top 250 page, it is stated that "Shorts, TV movies, and documentaries are not included." Is Hamilton really more of a "film" than a documentary? What about a TV movie? That means Steven Spielberg's Duel (1971) would not be allowed on the list, implying that IMDb believes Hamilton is more of a "film" than Duel.

Maybe part of the issue is that IMDb does not have a clear genre tag for recordings of Broadway musicals/plays. While Ron Howard's Beatles doc Eight Days a Week (2016) is tagged "Documentary, Music," Hamilton is tagged "Biography, Drama, History, Musical," all of which are typically used on IMDb for narrative films such as Hidden Figures (Biography) or La La Land (Musical). Yes, In the age of digital media, lines are blurred and we can watch a great stage show in our living rooms (in fact, Hamilton was originally to be given a theatrical release), but isn't it still a live musical... on a stage, and not a movie, a "film?" If Hamilton really is more like a "film" than a live show, isn't it more like a documentary than a narrative film? More like a recording of a Queen concert than Bohemian Rhapsody (2018)?

For recordings of live performances, I suggest that IMDb utilize a "Stage," "Theater," "Play," and/or "Live" tag, the same way that documentary films use the "Documentary" tag.

Today, more people than ever turn to IMDb's top 250 as one of a few definitive lists of the greatest films ever made. Hamilton, as original, entertaining, loved, and praised as it is, does not belong on that list, simply because it is not a film.

I know this post seems trivial in the context of a global pandemic, an economic downturn, political uncertainty, and a major reckoning with racism. But language matters, and definitions matter. And this being IMDb, I assume that many other fans of cinema who use this site agree that the definition of "a film" matters.

Note: This comment was created from a merged conversation originally titled Recordings of Musicals Such as Hamilton (2020) Should not Appear on Top 250 List

6 years ago

gromit82

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9.8 m/s^2 (may I call you g): I would agree with you not because Hamilton (2020) is a recording of a stage musical, but because it isn't a theatrical film.

As you mentioned, "Shorts, TV movies, and documentaries are not included" in the IMDb Top 250. https://www.imdb.com/chart/top/

Hamilton was at one point planned for a theatrical release, but instead it went straight to the Disney+ streaming service, which for IMDb purposes is considered television. Hence, I believe it should be considered a TV movie and needs a Title Correction to become Hamilton (2020) (TV).

6 years ago

Gravity98

31 Messages

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514 Points

I get Gromit's argument, but I agree with Ed that the TV solution is not the best, especially considering that Hamilton was to be given a theatrical release until the pandemic changed that. This implies that Greyhound, though filmed and funded as a theatrical release, should now be listed as "TV movie" on IMDb. My argument against Hamilton being in the Top 250 Movies is not predicated on a technicality, it is that Hamilton is fundamentally not a movie, full stop.

Who decides that those three are not TV and everyone else must be?

Though this is perhaps a different topic, I think this is a major issue with not only IMDb right now, but the entire film industry. Even Steven Spielberg has argued that streaming movies are TV movies, saying “Once you commit to a television format, you’re a TV movie."

I think IMDb should at least adopt the definition of "TV movie" used by the Oscars, where a least a limited theatrical run is required for award consideration. This means that, using your examples, The Irishman (which got a limited release) is a theatrical film, but a Hallmark movie is a TV movie. Obviously this is a loophole for studios with deep enough pockets, as Spielberg pointed out in that same interview: “You certainly, if it’s a good show, deserve an Emmy, but not an Oscar. I don’t believe films that are just given token qualifications in a couple of theaters for less than a week should qualify for the Academy Award nomination.”

So personally, I think if there wasn't any theatrical run, a film should be listed as a TV movie (or, if there's a demand for the label, a Streaming movie). Of course, This doesn't apply to Hamilton, which is not a movie to begin with, but a recording of a live show.

6 years ago

Maxence_G

4.5K Messages

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71.8K Points

I agree with you, Hamilton isn't a film, You have my support, and I gave you a "vote".
I was surprised when I saw it on the Top 250, Hamilton is a filmed stageplay, it definitely is less a film than any short on IMDb.

So I think that's IMDb's already established rules are in favor of us.

6 years ago

Gravity98

31 Messages

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514 Points

...it definitely is less a film than any short on IMDb.

I agree with this. TV movies too.

Lots of "new media" is being added to IMDb these days, and not much has been done to adapt. The thing is, most of this new media can technically fit into the old categories that IMDb uses. For example, streaming shows are listed as regular TV shows, and YouTube "vlogs" are usually tagged "documentary" or "reality TV," which I guess is technically true and not misleading. But there is no category for a recording of a live musical to fit in, so IMDb considers it a "film," which is too much of a stretch. It is false and misleading.

I think it is great that the original production of Hamilton is now available for the price of Disney Plus instead of crazy Broadway prices and a trip to New York. As a recording of a play, it is done well, and I hope to see more recordings of plays/musicals in the future. But these recordings are the democratization of Broadway, not film adaptions. Not movies. And I hope the Internet Movie Database can acknowledge this.

6 years ago

honolulu_styles

122 Messages

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3.6K Points

hope the staff would solve the issue soon. this is a recorded theathrical play and since it's not a movie how can it be in a top movie list? this belongs to the documentary section!

6 years ago

Gravity98

31 Messages

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514 Points

Yeah, I wonder if the staff care or even have an incentive to keep it on the list. Surely the staff themselves have noticed it appearing there by now? Of the existing categories, I agree that documentary makes the most sense, though in the future there may be more recordings of live shows, so perhaps IMDb needs a new category.

On Hamilton as a "movie," something I've been thinking about today is, as a film (ignoring the context of the stage), some parts of Hamilton would be considered completely ridiculous.... as an example: a grown man playing a little kid?

Whatever the outcome is, I plan on having less faith in the IMDb "Top 250."

6 years ago

honolulu_styles

122 Messages

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3.6K Points

Faith in the list is gone. 10 movies are rotating in the last 5 spot of the list for months now. 5 Indians and 3 animated movies..even if their ratings go down they are still there. It looks like we have to have a certain amount of Indians or Japanese movies on the chart.

6 years ago

Gravity98

31 Messages

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514 Points

I see what you mean, I guess the list was never perfect and Hamilton appearing is just a manifestation of that.... a nail in the coffin, to be dramatic about it.

I have no problem with foreign films on the list, like the Kurosawa films, Parasite, or Bicycle Thieves, but some of the Indian films that have made the list recently objectively don't belong on the list. Most of their reviews are shallow 10/10s filled with emojis. There is a "Top Rated English Movies" list but it means you miss out on Kurosawa, Parasite, 8 1/2, and Pan's Labyrinth, to name a few... and still have Hamilton. I don't know what the solution is, but the list is losing value in my opinion.

6 years ago

imdbmember

226 Messages

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9.3K Points

This is a more interesting topic than IMDb's 250 list, which is hardly "difinitive" in any sense. It's about the very definition of "movie" or "film," etc, and there isn't really a difinitive definition for that.

Once Hamilton was recorded, it technically became a motion picture. There are a few shots in it, too, that were staged for the camera, although most of it was just a series of cameras set up to record live performances--later edited together. It's debatable if that makes it a movie, let alone a "film" in an age where few films are actually made with film. How "cinematic" does a movie or filmed play need to be to count? Dracula: Pages from a Virgin's Diary is one I like to cite, of a ballet re-staged for the camera.

Some of the earliest feature-length film, too, are basically filmed plays, including stage settings if not a live audience. The camera and technical merits of those films are more primitive than in Hamilton.

Maybe it's a little like comparing I Love Lucy, or any show shot with a live audience or pretended to be with the three-camera set-up as though it were a filmed play, to The Sopranos, which is more of the one-camera cinematic style. I guess they're both technically TV shows, but....

Then, yeah, there's the argument of the medium in which the motion picture is released: theatre, TV, streaming. And that's further complicated by the pandemic, with the Oscars, for one, making a one year exception, while movies such as The Irishman were already primarily for streaming, but also released in theatres for a short time mostly for prestige and awards consideration purposes. And before that there's movies--more so in Europe--that were released in theatres and TV about at the same time and somewhat different forms.

Definitions do matter. But, the 250 list? I don't care.

6 years ago

Gravity98

31 Messages

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514 Points

Very interesting points. I agree that there is no "definitive definition" of a "film." I don't think the definition involves celluloid, or necessarily excludes all unconventional styles.

I do think that a major part of a reasonable definition is, implicitly, intention of the artists. To use your example: although I Love Lucy was filmed live, the stories, lighting, camera angles, and the acting performances were intended for the final TV audience. The live audience was/is there mainly for reactions and for the cast to play off of. Hamilton was filmed over three days and two live performances with paying audiences. It was written, cast, acted, lit, even edited as a Broadway show. The filmed version was put together to bring the experience of the live stage performance as untouched as possible directly to the general public. I know Lin-Manuel Miranda has called it a "movie," an "independent film," etc, but I think that is more him talking as a marketing spokesman (and has actually confused some people into expecting an adaption, judging by some of the IMDb reviews). It seems obvious that the creative team intended the filmed version to be as much like seeing Hamilton live as possible (besides also being a way to make a huge amount of money relatively easily).

I like your I Love Lucy point, although comparing that show to a single camera comedy from the same time period, Leave It to Beaver, I'd argue that they share more similarities than differences (compared to Apocalypse Now vs Hamilton).

TV in general seems to have a lot more variety than cinema though, with live late night shows, single-cam narratives, news/documentary programs, soap operas, SNL... all called "TV shows" by most people, and have been since the beginning of the format. So I'm not sure that is quite analogous to the issue here with Hamilton and the definition of "a movie/film."

In the internet age, we are seeing more and more digital video, so it's natural that there is going to be recordings of popular Broadway shows. I think, if this is not a new format, it is closer to a documentary film than "a movie." I think a big point of confusion is that it is a recording of a fictional story with actors to begin with. To me that is irrelevant. it is like a full concert video where some of the closeups and effects were filmed later and some mistakes fixed in post. We call them "concert films," but most people wouldn't say Roger Water's Us + Them is their favorite "film." Hamilton is like a concert film. Concert films are usually labeled Documentary on IMDb.

I wish I was better at articulating this, but it seems we here all have the same definition of "a film/move/cinema," at least enough to know what each other is saying. Just not a clear definition in writing.

My biggest argument of course was that IMDb already explicitly excluded documentaries, TV movies, and short films from the top 250 list. They already have somewhat arbitrary qualifications to be considered "a film." If Hamilton is indeed a "film" by IMDb's standards, fine. But get rid of the "TV movie" marker (those are definitely more "cinema" than Hamilton), and let shorts and maybe documentaries be included in the top 250 list.

I agree that the 250 list ultimately doesn't matter. My life doesn't perceptively change because of this. But lots of people (including me) use the 250 list. IMDb displays it prominently all over the site. They even put "Top Rated Movies #XY" on the awards section of a film's page. Plus it's tied into the site's 10 star rating system. So in the context of IMDb, I'd argue that the top 250 pages is one of the most important aspects of the site. Sure, some of us use IMDb to see if a movie was shot with Panavision C lenses (just for example), but the star and rating system are one of the most used parts of the site by a lot of people, in my experience.

And just as a side note, it seems IMDb takes the page very seriously, for example: they keep which user's votes will count secret, to preserve the "integrity" of the page.

6 years ago

imdbmember

226 Messages

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9.3K Points

Good points. I guess I have a loose definition of "movie" or "film" usually, but I agree that Hamilton is different than Apocalypse Now, but then it's also different than, say, Woodstock (1970). Other filmed plays of fictional stories, not music concerts, don't seem to be listed as documentaries, and I think to do so would be problematic regarding some early silent films or more-cinematic filmed plays such as Dracula: Pages from a Virgin's Diary and would confuse the documentary genre. But, yeah, it's a thin line between the purpose of Hamilton as the presentation of the play's narrative and as a recorded event intended for and of it being viewed by a live audience. I see the merits of your argument.

Regarding TV, remember that movies in theatre used to be more varied. TV replaced the past evening's entertainment at a cinema where one would be entertained by a feature along with short films, cartoons and newsreels. Filmed plays, variety shows and all sorts of other varied programs that tested the definition of what a film is long before TV and streaming took over.

For instance, Hamilton seems an easier case to me than La Jetée, a series of narrrated still images with some camera movement within the images, and that "film" features highly on some critics' lists, although it's too short for the IMDb 250.

But, granted, Hamilton is another odd one. The best solution would probably be if enough people eventually realize that it's deficient as a movie and so stop overrating it. Seems like it has a long way to fall off the list, though.

6 years ago

Gravity98

31 Messages

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514 Points

I agree that labeling it a "documentary" is not a perfect solution. It seems to be a popular solution in the replies to my original post, and I think it is better than the current labeling, but, as the "idea" of my original post, I think IMDb needs a new category for live plays/musicals. I think with the success of Hamilton there are more to come. They probably won't be so overrated and make the 250 list, but they too would benefit from the accurate labeling (people could search for recordings of live shows, and there could be a "top musical theater" list eventually for the live recordings, for example).

I don't know if Hamilton will ever fall off the list naturally, as it already had its huge fan base to give it 10/10 reviews since day one, and less familiar IMDb users may avoid watching it all together because it is a 3 hour stage show and they may not be into that. I like your wording "deficient as a movie," though. That about sums up why it is frustrating to see it on the list. People are rating it as a Broadway show and Pop culture darling, not as a "movie."

You mentioned Le Jetée, and critic's praise of it. Some critics go for those kind of films, and look down on "commercial" films. Other critics read into the politics too much and rate a film based on their own ideology (many seemed to do this negatively with Joker last year, and maybe a bit with Parasite, positively). I personally believe that is one of the merits of a crowd sourced list like IMDb's, vs a critic's list. You usually get more "watchable," entertaining films that still have significant artistic merit. It was generally a good foil for rotten tomatoes and metacritic with their pretentiousness. As IMDb becomes more popular/mainstream, though, we seem to be getting a lot of fanatic 10/10 and 1/10 ratings and reviews.

I'm on the periphery of the film industry and have an IMDb page, so I guess I'm always stuck with IMDb. But recently I've really been drawn to Letterboxd. They have a 250 list that states this: "I removed all stand-up specials, stage plays, concert films, documentaries, shorts, 'collection listings' and other 'rarities', so only feature length narrative movies are listed here." I agree less with the films on their 250 list compared to IMDb, but this seems like a totally sensible administrator/staff to me. Maybe IMDb could learn something before they lose cinema fans to Letterboxd?

6 years ago

bderoes

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5.1K Messages

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118.8K Points

The statement "I removed ... so only feature length narrative movies are listed here." sounds like the statement of an individual, not of a company. Just because he called his list "official" does not mean he represents the organization. I did a bit of searching, found the list and who created it, but found no connection between that individual and the admin/staff of Letterboxd. (I didn't spend a LOT of time on it, so maybe I missed something.)

6 years ago

Gravity98

31 Messages

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514 Points

You are correct that it is an individual. I looked at it again and it is indeed a "patron" (a paying member?) that "created" the list. So I misspoke when I said "staff" (I hadn't spent much time there either, but they have a very small staff in New Zealand)

However, Letterboxd does very much seem to endorse the list: it can be accessed much the same way as IMDb's. And if you go to their films page and go to browse by: rating it is one of the four options. It is also at the bottom of the "lists" page under all time lists. Upon farther investigation it appears that their 250 list is the site-generated "highest rating first" list with the documentaries, concert films, etc taken out, and maybe updated manually(?).

Your skepticism over the word "official" is justified, but at the same time, I don't think the Letterboxd staff would promote the list so much if it did not represent the site in some way (surely they'd take it down or change the "official" title instead of put it on the front of their site?)

Personally, I prefer the more polished and detailed IMDb.... for now.

6 years ago

imdbmember

226 Messages

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9.3K Points

Adding a genre is a good idea.

I made the jump to letterboxd last year for other reasons involving IMDb being an unpleasant experience, although I also still do the ratings, reviews and lists things on IMDb as well, but more so as a legacy and backup. IMDb is still a better site for information mainly, "to see if a movie was shot with Panavision C lenses," for example, but letterboxd is nice as a social media site where I don't need to go through the sometimes-ridiculous IMDb review acceptance process.

And "patrons," indeed, are paying members there. It's a user and add supported site, I believe, as opposed to IMDb's ownership by Amazon.

6 years ago

Gravity98

31 Messages

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514 Points

Ah, thanks for the info! I saw that they have a whole page about "Migrating from IMDb," so it must not be too uncommon. I use IMDb mostly for (besides ratings and lists) the technical info, trivia, and cast and crew lists, but I really like Leterboxd's "where to watch" section on each page. IMDb's is still just a plug for Prime (for obvious reasons). I would like to see IMDb at least try to compete though.

Maybe you can answer, is the "Official Top 250 Narrative Feature Films" list really Official?

6 years ago

imdbmember

226 Messages

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9.3K Points

Official enough. It's created by an ordinary patron, but the list is featured under the "films" section, so it's supported by the site runners it seems.

They don't have special users to determine such a list, nor a secret formula to calculate ratings as far I know, as IMDb does, so anyone could've made that list.

The people who run the site have their own profile "Letterboxd," and there are "crew," from which they also create lists, but the site also sometimes promotes lists by users.

6 years ago

angelo_pilla

153 Messages

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7.5K Points

Hamilton, a Broadway show captured live and now on Disney + should not be considered a feature film. First because it is not a movie, it is a show. And second because it didn't had a theatre release. IMDb should consider this a "TV special" or anything that avoids this movie to be listed when we search for feature films or to appear on IMDb Top 250. Think about it. And thanks.

Note: This comment was created from a merged conversation originally titled About Hamilton

6 years ago

Michelle

Employee

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18.5K Messages

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324K Points

This reply has been converted into a comment

6 years ago

angelopilla47

131 Messages

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1.8K Points

6 years ago

Hamilton is not elegible for the Academy Awards because it is not a movie, but it has a shot at the Emmys. What else is IMDb waiting to wipe off this TV SPECIAL from Top 250 and from feature films search? It is not a movie. It is a recording of a live performance. Thanks.

https://variety.com/2020/film/news/hamilton-oscars-disney-plus-1234699198/

Note: This comment was created from a merged conversation originally titled Variety: "‘Hamilton’ Can’t Win Any Oscars But Has a Shot at the Emmys". Hamilton IS NOT A FEATURE FILM.

jeorj_euler

10.7K Messages

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226.6K Points

Just because a work doesn't meet the nominee inclusion criteria put forth by policy makers of the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences doesn't mean that the work isn't a movie.

— Jeorj Euler, an IMDb regular registrant

6 years ago

jeorj_euler

10.7K Messages

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226.6K Points

Sometimes persistence pays off, but the threads created by this person contain misleading remarks about the way that the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences works.

— Jeorj Euler, an IMDb regular registrant

6 years ago

angelopilla47

131 Messages

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1.8K Points

6 years ago

HAMILTON IS NOT A MOVIE. Every movie association, from the Academy of Arts and Sciences (which decided that Hamilton isn't elegible for Oscars) to AFI (which rewarded Hamilton with a special award because it didn't fit in the movie category) knows that. Only IMDb insists in keeping the absurd idea that this capture of a live theatre performance is a movie. It don't belong in Top 250. It don't belong in the feature film category when we use the search tool for finding real movies. Please, put Hamilton and other things like this, such as music concerts and stand-up performances, in a SHOW category. I will insist. Thanks.

https://variety.com/2021/awards/awards/afi-awards-2020-1234891618/

Note: This comment was created from a merged conversation originally titled Another proof that Hamilton is NOT a movie.

bderoes

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5.1K Messages

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118.8K Points

I don't disagree with you.

Prior posts by this author on this topic:

https://community-imdb.sprinklr.com/conversations/data-issues-policy-discussions/variety-hamilton-cant-win-any-oscars-but-has-a-shot-at-the-emmys-hamilton-is-not-a-feature-film/5ff6150b9cd78a240329b76f

https://community-imdb.sprinklr.com/conversations/data-issues-policy-discussions/hamilton-and-the-oscars/5fe487951544d52a90aa0717

https://community-imdb.sprinklr.com/conversations/data-issues-policy-discussions/hamilton-is-not-a-movie-and-shouldnt-be-on-top-250/5fb3580c762a722b89c6097c

6 years ago

angelopilla47

131 Messages

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1.8K Points

6 years ago

Hamilton didn't receive any single nomination for the Oscars.
Because it is a bad movie? No. Because IT IS NOT a movie.

Please, IMDb. Stop putting this recording of a live theatre performance in the "feature film" category.

It is NOT A MOVIE. It doesn't belong in Top 250 or in any search result for feature films.

Thanks. And I will insist.

Note: This comment was created from a merged conversation originally titled Hamilton was not nominated.

jeorj_euler

10.7K Messages

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226.6K Points

↳ /conversations/data-issues-policy-discussions/hamilton-and-the-oscars/5fe487951544d52a90aa0717

— Jeorj Euler, an IMDb regular registrant

6 years ago

jeorj_euler

10.7K Messages

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226.6K Points

↳ /conversations/data-issues-policy-discussions/hamilton-is-not-a-movie-and-shouldnt-be-on-top-250/5fb3580c762a722b89c6097c

— Jeorj Euler, an IMDb regular registrant

6 years ago

jeorj_euler

10.7K Messages

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226.6K Points

6 years ago

Should this thread be an "idea"-type thread instead of a "question"-type thread?

adrian

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3K Messages

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72.5K Points

No. IMDb is pretty clear on this issue. It's been released and is publicly viewable. There are plenty of plays that have been taped and shown as "movies" or "tv specials". It is in the top 250 because people vote that way. I think any title in IMDb is eligible given enough votes.

6 years ago

jeorj_euler

10.7K Messages

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226.6K Points

Hi, Adrian. Thanks for the feedback. Interestingly, the creator of this has never ever even bothered to propose a policy change. All the fixation is on the mere fact that Hamilton is among IMDb's top-rated 250 movies. I don't think some people realize how cheap and lame it would look for a policy change to be implemented just because of one movie.

— Jeorj Euler, an IMDb regular registrant

6 years ago

Marco

3.5K Messages

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96.4K Points

I think any title in IMDb is eligible given enough votes.

Documentaries aren't. (and of couse video games and tv shows, movies, specials and episodes aren't)

6 years ago

angelopilla47

131 Messages

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1.8K Points

5 years ago

Hamilton wasn't at the Oscars because IT IS NOT A MOVIE. It is a RECORDING OF A LIVE EVENT, so it shouldn't appear in Top 250 and in any search for feature films.

You at IMDb should create a category for concerts, plays and stand-up shows, so this kind of thing wouldn't appear alongside real movies, that were conceived to be movies, where every aspect was created for movie sake, like The Godfather and Citizen Kane. The script for Hamilton is not a script of a movie, the direction of Hamilton is not a direction of a movie, the costumes, the scenery, were not conceived for a movie. IT IS NOT A MOVIE. It was all already there. Can you guys understand the difference?

Thanks.

Note: This comment was created from a merged conversation originally titled Where was Hamilton at the Oscars?

jeorj_euler

10.7K Messages

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226.6K Points

The reason that the 2020 musical biopic movie Hamilton was not at the Academy Awards ceremony is probably because it didn't screen at an eligible cinema located within Los Angeles County. By the way, one can easily interpret the whole movie as a dream sequence envisioned aboard a brig docked off Manhattan. Whatever. Think I'm reaching? Well, the people who claim that Hamilton is not a movie are the ones who are really reaching, ignoring all the care the makers took to shoot the footage from multiple angles and select which ones to include in a final edit.

— Jeorj Euler, an IMDb regular registrant

5 years ago

angelopilla47

131 Messages

•

1.8K Points

5 years ago

Hamilton wasn't at the Oscars because IT IS NOT A MOVIE. It is a RECORDING OF A LIVE EVENT, so it shouldn't appear in Top 250 and in any search for feature films.

Thanks.

Note: This comment was created from a merged conversation originally titled Where was Hamilton at the Oscars?

jeorj_euler

10.7K Messages

•

226.6K Points

— Jeorj Euler, an IMDb regular registrant

5 years ago

angelopilla47

131 Messages

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1.8K Points

5 years ago

Hamilton was not nominated for the Oscars because it didn't fit the Academy criteria to establish what constitutes a feature movie.

And it was nominated for NINE EMMYS because it is considered a TV PRODUCTION.

But IMDb insists on keeping Hamilton on the FEATURE category, even making to the Top 250, alongside real movies (created, produced and written as movies), which is a complete absurd.

Please, I'm tired of finding this recording of a live event on the search results for MOVIES.

Hamilton IS NOT A FEATURE MOVIE. If you guys knew what a movie is you would understand.

Thanks.

Note: This comment was created from a merged conversation originally titled Hamilton was nominated for nine EMMYS. Do you still think it is a feature movie?

angelopilla47

131 Messages

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1.8K Points

5 years ago

Hamilton was deemed ineligible for the Oscars because it is a recording of a live event.

Hamilton won the Emmy for Oustanding Variety Special because it is a recording of a live event.

IT IS NOT A FEATURE FILM. IT IS A TV SPECIAL.

I cannot stand to see Hamilton on the top 250 alongside real movies written, produced and created to be movies.

Also it bothers me when Hamilton appears as a result when I search for feature films on the advanced title search.

Do you guys even know what a feature film is?

Note: This comment was created from a merged conversation originally titled Hamilton won EMMYS. It is a TV SPECIAL, not a movie.

angelopilla47

131 Messages

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1.8K Points

5 years ago

Hamilton is a recording of a live event, it is not a movie.

It wasn't shown in theatres, it is not a movie.

It was inelegible for the Oscars, it is not a movie.

It was nominated for the Emmys, it is not a movie.

Why the hell Hamilton is still appearing on Top 250 and as a result when we search for feature films?

Please, labeled it as a TV SPECIAL. HAMILTON IS NOT A MOVIE.

Thanks.

Note: This comment was created from a merged conversation originally titled A TV Special should not be on Top 250.

ACT_1

9K Messages

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180.9K Points

@angelopilla47

? ?

angelopilla47
Mon, Nov 16, 2020
Hamilton is not a movie and shouldn't be on top 250.
https://community-imdb.sprinklr.com/conversations/data-issues-policy-discussions/hamilton-is-not-a-movie-and-shouldnt-be-on-top-250/5fb3580c762a722b89c6097c

- - -

angelo_pilla
Wed, Jul 29, 2020
About Hamilton
Hamilton, a Broadway show captured live and now on Disney + should not be considered a feature film.
https://community-imdb.sprinklr.com/conversations/data-issues-policy-discussions/about-hamilton/5f4a7cb48815453dba0ff736

- - -

angelopilla47
Thu, Dec 24, 2020
Hamilton and the Oscars
Do you know why Hamilton is not appearing in ANY list of 2020 best movies?
Because IT IS NOT a movie.
https://community-imdb.sprinklr.com/conversations/data-issues-policy-discussions/hamilton-and-the-oscars/5fe487951544d52a90aa0717

- - -

cd95

https://community-imdb.sprinklr.com/users/5f49556e917fbb5af045db46

Tue, Jul 21, 2020
Recordings of Musicals Such as Hamilton (2020)
Should not Appear on Top 250 List
https://community-imdb.sprinklr.com/conversations/imdbcom/recordings-of-musicals-such-as-hamilton-2020-should-not-appear-on-top-250-list/5f4a7cb38815453dba0fcc35

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5 years ago

plur62

342 Messages

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6.9K Points

LOL, yes, Hamilton is TV Special, but we can't expect it from IMDb to switch it from feature film to that category very soon.

5 years ago

phil_leguichard

28 Messages

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1.1K Points

2 years ago

I notice that Hamilton has fallen out of the Top 250 Films list. It has been listed as a TV movie. Any particular reason why this happened now, more than 2 years after release?

Note: This comment was created from a merged conversation originally titled Hamilton (2020) out of Top 250 Movies

Fran

Employee

•

4.5K Messages

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45.4K Points

Hello phil_leguichard,

Thanks for reporting the wrong data on the title "Hamilton"! I have changed the title type back to the correct one "Movie" it looks like was changed by mistake, the changes will be live on the site shortly!

Cheers!

4 years ago

jimpemmas

3 Messages

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70 Points

This is a filmed live stage performance of a Broadway play so it should be categorized as TV Special or something like that, NOT a movie. It should not be at the Top 250 of narrative feature films.

Note: This comment was created from a merged conversation originally titled Hamilton (2020) in IMDb's Top 250 is a mistake

2 years ago

angelopilla47

Hamilton is not a movie and shouldn't be on top 250.

Michelle

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