Live poll: Dark Disney

@dgranger​ It's your poll. Could you please add some context to each option. Not everyone will know WHY a given option was considered thematically dark.

Good point. I’d just wanted a quick easy poll to read and reproduce. I write too much. 

But you are right because Disney does such a good job of lightening up the mood by turning them into musicals that it is hard to see the darker elements like “Oliver and Company” (never forget that that is a retelling of Charles Dicken’s “Oliver Twist”), talking about justifying stealing to survive, kidnapping, cruelty to kids, (in the book, child labor and child abuse (child abuse, and child labor is also in “The Rescuers”)), jealousy, sadism (Sykes delights in torture, cruelty, and he wants to hear, on the phone call, the details on how someone was tortured), and attempted murder (Sykes’ dogs going after Oliver, and Sykes trying to rundown Jenny, Fagan, Dodger, Oliver and the gang in the subway and on the bridge).

Quite a few Disney villains are sadistic.

And two of these films talk about using fear to get what you want, “Monsters Inc.”, and “Zootopia”. “Because fear works” is a direct quote from “Zootopia” (the lamb, Mary Bellweather says it.)

@Pencho15​ on

@TheOldJalapenoman​ i’ll add.

@mariojacobs​ oh he is on for almost different reasons. Not only because of people are laughing at him for his big ears, but how people treat him. Prejudence and the whole social class part of the circus. Two speeches in the film sums it up perfectly- 1) Timothy the circus mouse to the crows, and 2) the one clown saying “you might hurt the little guy” when the other clowns plan a dangerous stunt and the other clowns don’t care. It is about what the film says about people.

@dgranger​ This is not about your topic, but I think it is interesting...

According to Jeremy in an interview with "Time Out New York" magazine, in order not to upset nor alert executives at Disney, Jeremy's role as Blisterface in the children's series Bone Chillers (1996) was kept secret. Producers disguised Jeremy so much that he is unrecognizable, which helped them from alerting pro-family studio executives that a pornstar was on their payroll.

https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000465/trivia/?ref_=nm_ql_3

@mariojacobs​ not unusual. Have you seen Joan Colin’s career before she landed on “Dynasty”?

@dgranger​ No. What happened?

Corrections:

in order to drive drive the narrative

But some of the latest films, after his death, have gone particularly dark. (I could list some examples here but that would bias the poll.) And the dark parts are generally the intense scary, not funny, parts.

But I’m leaving the rest to to you to suggest some that you think that went dark.

Done. Added “Brother Bear”. And I fell to temptation and put a note to “The Hunchback of Notre Dame”. Why? Because out of all of them, source material for the movie, the book, is incredibly dark. I’m surprised the Disney company made it as an animated film for the family. There is nothing for kids in that story. 

The conspiracy scene is a hint on any fascistic reign or dictatorship in humankind.

@Breumaster​ added. And both of your comments were added word for word. I’m a political science major who knows the true definition of Fascist. What Scar did want was a dictatorship with no political democratic opposition. He was a dictator who put himself first before his subjects while Mufasa put duty and his people/subjects first, and sought advice before deciding what to do. I won’t go into describing what fascism is. But I will say it is being greatly misused. 

Yeah, fascism (as in the body of disparate concepts advanced by Benito Mussolini,at a time leading up to and during war along with the rationing of liberty that goes with it) is a bit complex. I've not found a single reliable source that can define and describe it in only several long sentences. Another word that hadn't always been greatly misused but sort of has been in recent decades is "racism", which is usually but not always intertwined with fascist concepts. Anyway, I'm not sure what about the parent post tripped the spam filter, apart from the fact that it is a short phrase containing three hyperlinks even though those links are for IMDb URLs. When my posts are marked private, it is usually because I've embedded a YouTube video in them among a relatively short-winded message.

@Breumaster , I don’t think l’m endorsing Fascism. I’m not. I’m against it. I’m pro constitution democracy small government and pro bill of rights.

Not to drift too far off topic, but mainly only the self-proclaimed antifascist or folk conditioned accordingly could become suspicious of the character and merits of somebody on account of that somebody having failed to condemn fascism, or for being indifferent on the matter.

@Breumaster​ 

Another post set to private. What should I say? This beginns to be silly. :(

Because we are talking politics. But truthfully, I think it mostly when you get into adult topics and language more than politics. That is why I was very carefull when talked about “The Hunchback of Notre Dame” because there was one more character and element in the book that were widely left out of the film. In fact, I ran the risk of being banned when I had talked about the brutal practice of marrying for money and what you can get instead of marrying for love in “Frozen”. That too was also in the book of hunchback but left out of the film. And the character that does it in the book was drastically changed into a hero in the film doing heroic acts long after the point he was dead in the book!

@Breumaster​ I saw the post on the notices. I knew you weren’t. It was more like what @jeorj_euler  was saying. I was afraid the people would mis interpret what I was saying. I’m against Fascism and I’m against these Antifa groups too. As I said l’m pro democracy and pro bill of rights and the constitution. 

Which antifa groups?

Worth noting that "Antifa" is very poorly-identified and even sometimes misidentified in mainstream media. Maybe we will see a day in the distant future where both fascists and antifascists stand together against a thing or the thing that doesn't refer to itself as the ministry of truth despite exhibiting the attitudes of the Ministry of Truth. Undoubtedly, the Federal Bureau of Investigation, per counter intelligence programs, keeps tabs on extremist groups, regardless of having the probable cause and reasonable suspicion, of articulate ties to specific federally-defined felonies, but just as well is very funny about releasing information about arrests, without being forced to do so, pursuant to FOIA. I do believe a lot of words become useless in the Bizarro world of dystopia scenarios come to life, but maybe it always did require multiple paragraphs, diagrams and charts in order to articulate a world view.

@dgranger​ 

It's set to private. I don't know who does that. I won't answere again until that stops.

First the page has to set it to pulic.

I've a post that has remained in the "private" state for over a month now. Which has never happened to me before.

@jeorj_euler​ 

It looks like the site is out of controll. I didn't write anything in that post which was poltically relateable to any hot situation in the world. It was just about a Disney movie with links to images of that movie on IMDb and generally fitting statements. If comments to Disney movies are censored by the code of the site, then the code seems to be broken, somehow.

The problem has less to do with cold wars (or civil unrest, or psychological operations) and more to do with patterns of behavior exhibited by unsolicited advertisers who nearly plague the Sprinklr platform and had also done similarly with ol' Get Satisfaction platform. While I've referred to them as basically "spammers", I would be hard pressed to say for sure that their only motive is to attempt to sell wares, since many of the sites being advertised don't really have much to offer, leading me to believe that at least some of the spammers merely want to harvest the Internet addresses of as many participants of this forum as possible. One obvious motive is the hope of artificially boosting the search engine optimization ranking of the websites being referenced, enough for them to turn right around and sell the websites to folks who don't know how to naturally gain a better ranking.

I agree. What you posted was innocent.

Just to note, there is also the possibility that some of the spammers' Internet addresses are based out of the same metropolises and regiopolises as legitimate participants of this forum, but I would find it odd that there would be significantly fewer spammers appearing to be in the United States than appearing to be in Canada or central Europe.

It still is hidden. There is a comment we talk about, but it's not shown. That's fishy! :-[

O, really? Thanks for the clarification.

@Pencho15​ I haven’t forgotten. But some these are right in your face. The first five minutes into the picture, “Raya and The Last Dragon” tells you is it going to go very dark with the talk of betrayal, revenge, greed - for money and power - , jealousy, stereotype racism, distrust, and keeping secrets. The same with “Something Wicked These Way Comes” which the title itself is a quote from the witches in the first scene from Shakespeare’s “Macbeth”. - “By the prickling of my thumbs, something wicked this way comes.”

@dgranger​ I agree some may be obvious, but it doesn't hurt listing them for those that have not seen the movie, and to have all options treated the same before voters eyes.

I’ll get on it.

@Pencho15​ done but some need to be trimmed down. Any suggestions?

The word "utopia" is usually pronounced like "you topia" rather than "oo topia" or "uh topia", so that's why it wouldn't be unusual to see the singular indefinite article spelled "a" rather than "an". I'm not exactly sure what the rule concerning this actually is, though. I remember this being discussed before on the forum but in regards to which article suits "united" like in one given "United States thing", and I wound up confused, left wondering whether or not "united" is pronounced the same way in all parts of the United States, since the dialects/accents of English-speaking inhabitants (including citizens) of the United States aren't necessarily uniform.

@jeorj_euler​, @dgranger, @Breumaster

I would say a utopia because of the "y" sound.

Ok. In school I learned that "a" or "an" is attached to the noun, later I learned that American English does another way. Seems like American language still has some surprises for me.

@Jessica​ I usually go for the old school rule of if it begins with a vowel, use “an” regardless of the sound of the vowel. It is just easier and more convenient type. I know this says differently - https://www.scribbr.com/commonly-confused-words/a-vs-an/#:~:text=A%20and%20an%20are%20different,%2C”%20“i”). (the link is for @Breumaster and @jeorj_euler ‘s discussion.)

@dan_dassow​ thank you. Just in time for holloween. The changes are done.l’m sorry it took so long. My fault. Thank you Pencho15 for bumping it. Now I go vote. I got a 3 way split as to which one I think is the darkest. I think Quasimodo is going to get a vote.