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Friday, December 9th, 2022 7:16 AM

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Time for Endgame (basically ready)

​Intro:​

​A big everlasting "final solution" is what humankind phantasized, feared and suffered about since we tried to put us in order in different kinds of civilisations. Wise people know that there is always a huge danger for such systems to turn fascist. So many films were made of that sinister idea of "caring" and batteling in the humankind and even other (e.g. space-races, A.I.s, Robots, etc...) beings as a wildcard for our conflicts. Some of them are dystopian, some of them are biographical or have a true background. Whether you think positive or negative about ...​

​Which of these movies that contain gathered characters who enforce their ideology for the goal to win "the one and only" endgame and their opposite forces is your favorite?​

​Please discuss ​​here​​.​

​Suggestions:​

​Movies, no TV-Series or pure documentations. Biographies ok. documentations. Max. 2 animated per user, if you want to give animated movies examples. The movies should be known, so please at least 25.000 ratings. ​​Only 1 movie per franchise, except reboots.​

​List:​​ ​​Time for Endgame - IMDb​

​Poll:​​ TBD​

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3 months ago

Added new rule:

Only 1 movie per franchise, except reboots.

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3 months ago

Star Trek; The Motion Picture:  Kirk, Spock, and the rest of the Enterprise crew face off against Vger with the fate of the Earth in the balance.

The Alamo:  (1960)  Travis, Bowie, Crocket, (part of a total of 179 men) face off against the forces of General Santa Ana in defending the Alamo.  The Mexican forces number over 5000.  At stake is the independence of Texas and freedom from a tyrannical government.  In the end, the superior forces win and all of the men inside the Alamo are killed.

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@TheOldJalapenoman​ 

First thank you for your suggestion, TheOldJalapenoman.

Not each battle is fascistoid. Was there a ideology in those battles? I know vger turned bad for humankind, because it's A.I. misinterpreted it's own programming and turned bad.

Was Alamo a battle just about goods and/or land, or was there a bigger ideology behind the battles?

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Let's look at the Alamo first.  Texas was, at the time, considered a part of Mexico.  Most of the residents of Texas, however, were English speakers from The United States.  They received zero representation in the Mexican government and were heavily taxed (yes, the old "Taxation without representation").  When they rebelled against the Mexican government, Jose Lopez de Santa Ana, who was a Mexican general and also the President of Mexico, led a group of thousands of soldiers north to Texas to squash the rebellion.

A group of citizens in San Antonio locked themselves in the Alamo, a catholic church in San Antonio, as it was the most defensible position in the area,  This group of men, women, and children were told by Santa Ana when he arrived that if they did not surrender, they would be killed to a man.  

The Texans were now having to fight for their lives and the main Texas army, under the command of General Sam Houston, was hundreds of miles away.

The small army of Texas volunteers managed to hold off the Mexican charges and cannon attacks for several days before finally falling.  All of the men were killed,  The women and children were raped and carried away as prisoners of the Mexican army.

There is a large shrine today on the street in front of the Alamo.  The name of every Texan who died is engraved around the base of that statue.  To a native Texan such as myself, it is almost a reverent and holy site.  It is emotional to be there and to walk the grounds of the Alamo.

These people sacrificed their lives, their fortunes, and their sacred honor to try to save their homes and their families.  They all knew that they would die.  They were given the opportunity by Alamo commander Colonel Willian Barrett Travis to leave when he drew a line in the sand and challenged all 180 men present.  179 crossed that line and sealed their fate.  They chose to try to hold out for Houstons arrival, knowing that it was unlikely and that they would most likely die.

These men were my heroes growing up.  Everything I have stated so far is from memory.  This is my history and my lineage.

Travis wrote the following letter while inside:

To the People of Texas & All Americans in the World-

Fellow Citizens & compatriots-

I am besieged, by a thousand or more of the Mexicans under Santa Anna - I have sustained a continual Bombardment & cannonade for 24 hours & have not lost a man - The enemy has demanded a surrender at discretion, otherwise, the garrison are to be put to the sword, if the fort is taken - I have answered the demand with a cannon shot, & our flag still waves proudly from the walls - I shall never surrender or retreat.  Then, I call on you in the name of Liberty, of patriotism & everything dear to the American character, to come to our aid, with all dispatch - The enemy is receiving reinforcements daily & will no doubt increase to three or four thousand in four or five days.  If this call is neglected, I am determined to sustain myself as long as possible & die like a soldier who never forgets what is due to his own honor & that of his country - Victory or Death.

William Barret Travis.

Lt. Col.comdt.

P. S.  The Lord is on our side - When the enemy appeared in sight we had not three bushels of corn - We have since found in deserted houses 80 or 90 bushels and got into the walls 20 or 30 head of Beeves.

Travis

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This is an interesting story fur sure, but it isn't what I had in mind when I made up the idea. Groups who take from others is not really an ideology. When you look at the other examples I stated, there is always a story driving ideology. In most cases it's about facism. In Schidler's List it's about the German regime that wanted to form the superior race and exterminate all jews. In Gattaca each one who wants a better job has to be genetically perfect to form a perfect society. In Logan's Run all old people have to say good bye and die, no matter if they are still healthy or helpful. It's really more about ideology-driven grievances, not because of simple greed.

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3 months ago

Now let's look at Star Trek.

Vger has entered our arm of the galaxy.  On a heading towards earth, a fleet of Klingon ships is destroyed.  A scientific research station is then destroyed.  Vger shows that it is huge and powerful and it is not stoppable.  The only ship between Vger and earth is the Enterprise.

Kirk, Spock, and the Enterprise crew know that they do not have any kind of a chance in battle against Vger, but they go anyway.  They face Vger in what is probably a suicide mission.

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@TheOldJalapenoman​ 

That's also not really fitting. Vger was a solo machine, not one with several bodies. When you take A.I.s, I would rather suggest I, Robot, which shows the deadly grievances of a bad A.I. which turn out of control and spreads it's evil mind seed to all the robots, which act like an uncontrolable mass of danger for humankind. It's also about the danger of mass-phenomenons. That can also be groups like Q-Anon, or religious associations which grow to mighty and turn bad for the people. And so on ...

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3 months ago

I'm thinking Avengers: Endgame might be a better fit than Avengers: Infinity War, because the Thanos of the main timeline didn't actually wipe out his opposition, but more like a random half of all sapient lifeforms in the universe in the same timeline, whereas the past Thanos drawn from the alternate timeline did express intent to eliminate all of the Avengers in addition to half of all sapient lifeforms, so as to prevent the Avengers from ever trying to reverse his work.

O, and what about Revenge of the Sith?

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@jeorj_euler​ 

Ok, I'll take Endgame on the list. Also the title matches perfect. I formerly chose Infinity War, because it perfectly revealed the plans of Thanos. 

I guess The Revenge of the Sith would be perfect for it. Would you like to describe the ideology in your words fitting for a short description. I wouldd do, but I've got the fear that I could miss a mature point or something like that. It's long ago I saw it and I'm not such a Star Wars fan that I did see every movie several times, which I tend to on movies I do instantly like very much.

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Something along the lines of the following would be appropriate:

After commencing with a fatal, ambush coup d'etat of the Jedi leadership, the Sith orchestrate a merciless campaign of defamation, persecution, suppression and slow annihilation of the remaining Jedi, until only fewer than half a dozen of their legendary Knights are still alive and whereby most of the galaxy's population somewhat forgets that the Jedi existed much less were regarded as the guardians of peace and justice.

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@jeorj_euler​ 

Thank you, jeorj. I'll add your lines.

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3 months ago

I'd call it ready to go, but am open for corrections and further suggestions.

Champion

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3 months ago

Corrections:

A big everlasting "final solution" is what humankind fantasized, feared and suffered about since we tried to put us in order in different kinds of civilizations. Wise people know that there is always a huge danger for such systems to turn fascist. So many films were made of that sinister idea of "caring" and battling for humankind and even other (e.g. space-races, A.I.s, Robots, etc...) beings as a wildcard for our own conflicts. Some of them are dystopian, some of them are biographical or have a true background. Whether you think positively or negatively about it...

#4: people's

#5: A simile to our own computer technologies, which are expected to be able to enslave ourselves, soon.

#6: civilization

#7: a part of the the humans

#9: forbids

#13: The delusional view of a perfect world by excluding the disabled is a bad kind of "perfection"- dictatorship.

#16: The ideology of a civilization that only "grows" healthy by being just and only serious is one of the most sad and oppressive things of all.

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@Jessica​ 

Thank you, Jessica. Corrected.