gromit82's profile
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Wed, Sep 15, 2021 5:02 AM

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No, "Betty Boop" was not a TV series in 1930

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt15180956/ is a supposed TV series titled "Betty Boop" which supposedly debuted in 1930.

As I'm sure everyone reading this already knows, television broadcasting existed on only a very limited basis in 1930. The Betty Boop series of theatrical short films began in 1930 -- these films were not broadcast on television until years later.

What's worse, apparently every Betty Boop theatrical cartoon has been converted into an episode of the supposed TV series -- they are no longer entered as theatrical films. I was just looking for The Old Man of the Mountain (1933) and didn't see it at first, because it had been listed as a TV episode (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0024404/) instead of a film.

This isn't even the first time someone has created a pseudo-TV series for "Betty Boop" starting in 1930. As discussed in the thread here, there was another entry for "Betty Boop" (1930) in 2019, which was deleted. Why was this series allowed to be re-created when it was already determined to be an invalid entry before?

IMDb claims to be "the world's most popular and authoritative source for information on movies, TV shows and celebrities." Yet how can IMDb be considered authoritative if it doesn't demonstrate basic knowledge of television history, like when television came into common use? 

As I've said before, any television program submitted to the database with a start date in the 1930s or earlier ought to be scrutinized by an IMDb staffer to see whether it actually existed or has been submitted erroneously. In this case, the submission was erroneous. 

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Il y a 6 m

TV Series ? ?

Popeye the Sailor (1960-1962) 
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0145628/

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0145628/reference


Jack Mercer  ...   Popeye    (220 episodes, 1960-1962)

Actor: Short (515 credits) - Popeye (voice) Find 136

Actor: TV    (   18 credits)


Mae Questel ...   Olive Oyl (192 episodes, 1960-1962)
   ( also ... Betty Boop voice )

.

(edited)

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@ACT_1​ Popeye the Sailor (1960-1962) is in fact not an anthology, but an actual TV series with new episodes. (You can read about it here on Wikipedia). The original shorts had started airing on TV, but the original studio wasn't making any money off of them, so they decided to capitalize on the old shorts' popularity by creating a new series.

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Il y a 5 m

Time to bump this thread. After four months, every one of the misdescribed "television series" I mentioned in this thread is still incorrectly listed in the database.

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Il y a 5 m

I'd like IMDb to share a list of their priorities. From a contributor perspective, they don't seem to have them straight, but given the fact we don't get all the information, that remains an assumption. So IMDb, can you either share more information with us or fix important issues faster please?

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@Marco​ 

There's this ? ?

Data Processing Times
https://contribute.imdb.com/times

  

We process large quantities of valuable data which is submitted by you, 
our contributors. 
While all submissions are important,
to ensure we display the highest profile data for the most popular content
as quickly as possible, 
we prioritize contributions based on the type of content submitted.

  

Notes:

Processing times for Contact Data
(Branches, Employees, Clients,

Company Types,
Company Affiliations,
Company Acronyms,

Direct Contact) 
is not listed below. 

  

Contact data is processed at Platinum priority (within 1 business day).
The Oldest Item Date is the submission date 
for the single oldest unprocessed item within that category.
Most contributions submitted after that date will have already been processed.

  

Last updated on 29 January 2022.

Data  Type                       SLA             Oldest Item         Unprocessed Items
Company Filmography   Silver           24 January 2022                   166,965

Filmography: Crew         Platinum      13 July 2021                          18,537
New Titles                       Platinum     25 January 2022                    14,354
Release Dates                 Platinum     19 January 2022                    15,708
Title Core                        Platinum     25 January 2022                    44,533

Your Update History: 
https://contribute.imdb.com/updates/history

Your Contribution History:
https://contribute.imdb.com/contributions/history

.

(edited)

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@ACT_1​ "There's this ? ?"

Thanks, but I meant priorities when it comes to dealing with issues such as the one mentioned in this thread as well as new ideas that should get implemented (for example, the infamous five new genres). I would be interested to see a list of things IMDb is currently working on so we have a better understanding of what's in store for us and why things sometimes take much longer than expected.

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Bump.

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Il y a 3 m

This thread has been around for six months, and not one of the incorrectly classified "TV series" that I identified has been removed yet. How much research does it take to realize that "Betty Boop" was not a TV series in 1930, nor were the other theatrical cartoon series currently listed as being TV series in the 1930s? 

And, keep in mind, this isn't even the first time that a "Betty Boop" TV series from 1930 was included in the database -- see the thread at https://community-imdb.sprinklr.com/conversations/data-issues-policy-discussions/television-series-from-before-television-broadcasting-began/5f4a7a328815453dba9da909 for a prior discussion from 2019. Since that TV series was determined to be an error before, it should not have been accepted upon re-submission.

As I said before, we need the software to flag any submission of a TV series from before 1940 or so and require it to be reviewed by a knowledgeable editor before it is included in the database, because the chance that such a submission is an error would be quite high.

(edited)

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Il y a 2 m

We are now more than seven months into this discussion thread, and all of the incorrectly listed "TV series" that I mentioned in this thread are still listed as TV series. Is there anything that we can do to escalate this problem to get it fixed?

VonPunk

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@gromit82​ Something I reported 16 months ago still hasn't been fixed and I'm not expecting it to ever be, I hope you have better luck.

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It's now been eight months since I raised this problem and no progress appears to have been made toward fixing it.

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@gromit82​ I'm disappointed that important movie shorts from 1930s have been listed in the Internet Movie Database as TV episodes for more than eight months.

I wonder if Col Needham has seen this thread. This seems like an issue that might interest him.

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Il y a 1 m

? ?

The Little Rascals (1955-1955)
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0278213/

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0278213/reference/

Television syndication package of the classic 1929-1938 shorts
from the "Our Gang Comedies" movie series.

Wally Albright     ...   Orphan                 (1955) (archiveFootage) (unknown episodes)
Sherwood Bailey ...   Sherwood 'Spud' (1955) (archiveFootage) (unknown episodes)

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0278213/trivia

This television package includes every sound Hal Roach-produced Our Gang comedy,...

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0278213/episodes?season=1

S1, Ep1    School's Out 1955
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt7039354/

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt7039354/reference/

It looks like we don't have any Cast and Crew for this title yet.

S1, Ep2   Fly My Kite
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt7039362/

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt7039362/reference/

It looks like we don't have any Cast and Crew for this title yet.
- - -

School's Out (1930)
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0021339/

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0021339/reference/

20min  Comedy, Family  22 Nov 1930 (USA)  Short

Matthew 'Stymie' Beard     ... Hercules               (as Hal Roach's Rascals)
Norman 'Chubby' Chaney ... Chubby Chaney    (as Hal Roach's Rascals)
Jackie Cooper                    ... Jackie Cooper      (as Hal Roach's Rascals)

The People's Choice (1955-1958)
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0047762/

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0047762/reference/

Socrates "Sock" Miller joins the city council,..
Jackie Cooper ... Socrates 'Sock' Miller (104 episodes, 1955-1958)


Fly My Kite (1931)
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0021878/

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0021878/reference/

20min  Family, Comedy  30 May 1931 (USA)  Short

Matthew 'Stymie' Beard     ... Stymie   (as Hal Roach's Rascals)
Norman 'Chubby' Chaney ... Chubby   (as Hal Roach's Rascals)
Dorothy DeBorba              ... Dorothy   (as Hal Roach's Rascals)

= = =

gromit82, Champion
Sun Sep 08 2019
Television series from before television broadcasting began
https://community-imdb.sprinklr.com/conversations/data-issues-policy-discussions/television-series-from-before-television-broadcasting-began/5f4a7a328815453dba9da909?commentId=5f4a7c358815453dbafb9dc0

I decided to look at some of the television series listed in IMDb from the 1930s.

Admittedly, television did exist during this era ... but not all of these titles were really television series.

"Betty Boop" (1930-1939):

Yet another series of animated cartoons, made for theatrical release, being erroneously listed as a TV series.

"The Little Rascals Classics" (1930-    )
"The Little Rascals Classics" (1932-    ) (I)
"The Little Rascals Classics" (1932-    ) (II):

These appear to be three different entries referring to the exact same series -- which was a series of live-action shorts made for theatrical release, not for television. Furthermore, in the 1930s, the series was known as "Our Gang", not "The Little Rascals" (much less "The Little Rascals Classics").

- - -

  

Little Rascals: Best of Our Gang (1930)
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt3124676/reference/

Not Rated  1h 24min  Comedy, Family  01 Jul 2008 (USA)  Movie
Cast
Eugene 'Porky' Lee  
George 'Spanky' McFarland  
Carl 'Alfalfa' Switzer  
Billie 'Buckwheat' Thomas

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt3124676/trivia

The "1930" production date for this title is actually impossible,
since at least one of the cast members,
Billie 'Buckwheat' Thomas, was not born until 1931.

.

(edited)

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We are now past nine months since this thread started and none of the bogus TV series I mentioned have yet been removed from the database. 

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@gromit82​ 

I can't tell you how much this bothers me. To my mind this is urgent. When the same thing happened to the Tom and Jerry cartoons, the matter was handled quickly. Col Needham got involved. Why is this different?

cc @Michelle 

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And the shame of it is, because IMDb is such a revered source of information, this false "TV series" may be propagating to other websites and/or books.

If it's being kept on IMDb because there's a "series" on Amazon of these cartoons, all that needs to change is the release date of the series itself, with a trivia item explaining why the series has such a different release date than the individual episodes, which should be shells referring to the short films originally released in the 30's.

@Col_Needham,  Can we get an explanation for this?

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@bderoes​  The most likely explanation is that the Sprinklr team are just not seeing the updates on this thread, sorry.  Unfortunately there are bugs in Sprinklr which keep some active threads out of the admin view and this must be one.  I tried to reset this thread to "No status" a while ago, but that does not appear to have helped, sorry (the admin view definitely hides threads which are marked as "Solved").  I do not use the admin view myself, but for people whose core job responsibilities include managing Sprinklr, it is not practical to use the same view as end customers like us (despite the bugs).  I will reflag this for the team tomorrow. 

The title should not be a TV-series dated at 1930 and these "episodes" should exist as separate shorts given that is how they were originally released.  However, they were shown in a compilation TV-series later which complicates how we represent them.  There are arguments for not including the later TV-series at all since it is just a repackaging of existing material which could create a bad precedent elsewhere; there are arguments for creating the later series and duplicating the shorts as empty shell episodes; there are arguments for creating the later series and allowing all of the data to be duplicated.  All the options tend to just lead to both customer confusion and "contribution wars" wherein different sets of contributors insist we are doing the wrong thing and constantly correct each other's work (or get frustrated at us for not approving their updates).  It's not an obvious decision and there's clean-up and policy (re-)definition work involved in wherever we land.

An additional factor here is that right now a huge amount of time is being spent training the newly expanded data processing team on literally thousands of IMDb policy points, and therefore reducing the much more visible processing inconsistencies being reported elsewhere on Sprinklr. The team are less likely to be able to address a complex corner case ticket like this (see above). 

Hope this helps. 

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@Col_Needham​ Thanks for your reply.

With regard to the problems with Sprinklr, I note that unlike what Get Satisfaction once had (but later got rid of), Sprinklr has no public (end-customer)-facing support function that I can find. Hence, any issues with the Sprinklr web site itself will have to be dealt with by you and your colleagues. In the meantime, rather than bumping my old threads that have not been answered, I will try creating new threads instead.

Regarding the issue of how to report the compilation TV series for "Betty Boop," I would question the idea of treating each of the shorts as an episode of that series, simply on the grounds that it implies that the TV series was shown in episodes of 6 to 8 minutes each. I don't know about other countries, but when theatrical short cartoons have been shown on television in the U.S., typically they have been "packaged" into episodes of 30 minutes, 60 minutes, etc., each episode containing multiple cartoons. And I don't know where IMDb would be able to find the records of which cartoons appeared in which syndicated TV episode, which might have been broadcast 60 years ago.

I'm also skeptical of the idea that there was ever a TV series consisting solely of Barney Bear cartoons, much less Hunky and Spunky, the latter of whom only had 10 cartoons ever made. A half-hour TV series for Hunky and Spunky would have run out of material before completing its fourth episode.

Fortunately, though, I am not that emotionally invested in how IMDb manages the data for these TV series, so I would probably not get involved in the "contribution wars" you are describing.

Mostly I just want to make sure that (a) the theatrical cartoons are actually listed in IMDb as theatrical cartoons, and (b) no phony TV series from before television came into common use are listed or dated to be much earlier than they could have existed.