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Wednesday, September 14th, 2022

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Fake TV series from the 1930s -- following up

One year ago this week, I posted a thread (https://community-imdb.sprinklr.com/conversations/data-issues-policy-discussions/no-betty-boop-was-not-a-tv-series-in-1930/61417e5e7999fd0798c634a5) about how the Betty Boop cartoons of the 1930s had been converted into a TV series, even though they were made for theatrical release and television broadcasting existed only on a very limited basis at the time. In case anyone is wondering why I haven't just submitted corrections myself for this "series", I couldn't figure out how to submit a correction that the overall series was fake but the "episodes", which are real titles but not actual episodes, needed to be dispersed and converted into theatrical films. 

I also noted in that thread nineteen other supposed "TV series" listed in the database that supposedly debuted between 1906 and 1940 -- some of which would have purportedly debuted before the first television station in the world went on the air.

About half of these supposed TV series were series of theatrically released animated short films, while others included newsreels, sports coverage, theatrical features, and even a made-for-YouTube ripoff of "I Love Lucy", purported to have debuted 11 years before "I Love Lucy" went on the air and 65 years before YouTube debuted.

Eleven months ago, staffer Michelle responded to my prior thread, "I have collected all the titles reported and requested an extensive clean-up with our editorial team.  I have also opened discussion for  improvements regarding flags and approvals surrounding TV Series title submissions with a start date of 1930 or earlier." Yet, somehow, all of these supposed TV series are still listed in the database. (And the problem isn't just reviewing titles with a start date of 1930 or earlier -- the majority of the erroneous titles I cited were purportedly from between 1931 and 1940.)

Keep in mind, this isn't even the first time someone had entered a 1930 "Betty Boop" TV series into the database; it had happened in in 2019 as well, but at least that time the fake series got deleted timely.

I recall that Jon Reeves, IMDb's former head of data acquisition, was quite knowledgeable about animated shorts from the "Golden Age" of Hollywood animation, and has written many of the plot summaries. Perhaps the staff should get in touch with him, and he could explain that characters such as Betty Boop, Andy Panda, Barney Bear, and Hunky and Spunky were made for theatrical cartoons in the 1930s and not television, since television was not yet in common use. 

This conversation has been merged. Please refer the main conversation:

No, "Betty Boop" was not a TV series in 1930

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4 years ago

I should note that some of the submissions of these fake TV series may have come from users who did not really understand IMDb policies and were not trying to mislead. ("Allen and Kendal", on the other hand, doesn't have that excuse.) But that just means that the IMDb staff should have blocked the fake TV series from being created.

In the prior thread, I quoted dialogue from This Is Spinal Tap which still seems pertinent, in which a rock band's manager attempts to explain why a "Stonehenge" stage set was only 18 inches tall:

Ian Faith: Nigel gave me a drawing that said 18 inches. Now, whether or not he knows the difference between feet and inches is not my problem. I do what I'm told.

David St. Hubbins: But you're not as confused as him, are you? I mean, it's not your job to be as confused as Nigel.

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0088258/quotes/qt0261740

(edited)

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4 years ago

Here's the complete list of fake, or at least very inaccurate, TV series mentioned in the thread I started last year.

"1937 Coronation" (1937- )

"Allen and Kendal" (1940-2015)

"Andy Panda" (1939-1949)

"Barney Bear" (1939-1954)

"Betty Boop" (1930-1939)

"British Movietone News" (1929-1979)

"British Pathé News" (1910-1970)

"Color Classics" (1934-1941)

"Comicolor cartoons" (1933-1936)

"Grand Prix Motor Racing" (1906-1949)

"Hunky y Spunky" (1938-1941)

"John Wayne Classics" (1935-1963)

"John Wayne Colorized Collection" (1934- )

"Parrotville" (1934-1935)

"Puppetoons" (1932-1942) (I)

"Puppetoons" (1932-1942) (II)

"Rainbow Parade Cartoon" (1934-1936)

"The Three Stooges" (1934-1959)

"Toonerville" (1936)

"US Presidential Elections" (1928- )

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@gromit82​ For that list, are you able to provide an alternate list of what the starting and end years should be? That would probably help IMDb staff quickly fix the problem.

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@keyword_expert​ Not really, because most of them don't appear to be TV series at all. 

  • "1937 Coronation" is either a 1937 TV special or a 2017 TV special; the current entry is unclear as to which one is meant, nor am I confident as to whether that is the correct title for either of them.
  • "Allen and Kendal" might be eligible for listing as a TV series, but I can't find it on YouTube anymore.
  • "Andy Panda", "Barney Bear", "Color Classics", "Comicolor cartoons", "Hunky y Spunky", "Parrotville", both versions of "Puppetoons", "Rainbow Parade Cartoon", and "Toonerville" are all series of animated films that have probably all been broadcast on television, but I'm not aware that any of them were TV series under those titles.
  • "Betty Boop" cartoons may have been syndicated as a TV series somewhere under that title but I don't know when or where.
  • "British Movietone News" and "British Pathé News" were series of newsreels made for theatrical release.
  • "Grand Prix Motor Racing" might have been broadcast on television at some point before it was replaced by Formula 1, but I have no information on whether it actually was. If it was, the end date would probably be 1949 because Formula 1 began in 1950.
  • "John Wayne Classics" and "John Wayne Colorized Collection" refer to compilations of theatrical movies, not to TV series.
  • "The Three Stooges" shorts were definitely syndicated and aired on television under that title (among other titles), but I'm not sure that such a program is even eligible for listing in IMDb, much less when it began or ended or how to keep track of it.
  • "US Presidential Elections" appears to be a topic within news programs on the BBC, not a TV series in itself.

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@gromit82​ Okay, I admit that I was not fully comprehending the subject of this post. I reviewed a couple examples, like "Allen and Kendal," and thought that the main problem here was incorrect start dates and end dates. 

But my overarching feeling is that although you have clearly identified a problem, the solution(s) is not clear in your post. Maybe that's because there is no solution. Are you suggesting simply deleting a lot of these titles? Converting them into another type (other than TV series)? Or maybe the solution is different for each item on the list.

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I do have recommendations for these entries.

"Betty Boop": This is the only series I have found on this list where theatrical shorts were completely changed into TV episodes and not left as theatrical shorts. Convert all the episodes to theatrical shorts and then delete the series. (Make sure to block the series from re-creation, too.)

"Andy Panda", "Barney Bear", "Comicolor cartoons", "Hunky y Spunky", "Puppetoons" (1932/I), "The Three Stooges": It appears that the theatrical shorts still have entries of their own and have not been completely merged into these series. Merge each episode into its corresponding theatrical short and then delete the series.

"Color Classics", "Parrotville", "Rainbow Parade Cartoon", "Toonerville": The episodes shown on IMDb are only numbered and not titled, so I think these series can be deleted altogether (with their episodes disappearing because they are unidentifiable).

"Puppetoons" (1932/II) and "US Presidential Elections": These are not actual TV series and have no episodes. They can be deleted altogether.


"British Movietone News" and "British Pathé News": The episodes should probably become theatrical shorts but they will need to have the words "British Movietone News" or "British Pathé News" included in their titles. Once the episodes are converted to theatrical shorts with proper titles, delete the series.

"Grand Prix Motor Racing": Probably the majority of these episodes are completely bogus in the sense that the races were not broadcast on television (and for the earlier years, television did not even exist), but perhaps some of the later races were broadcast. I recommend asking the original contributor to provide evidence of actual television broadcasts, not just that the races were held. 

"John Wayne Classics" and "John Wayne Colorized Collection": Merge each episode into its corresponding feature film and then delete both series.

"1937 Coronation": Change to a TV special instead of a series and remove the phrase "BBC Parliament marks the 80th anniversary of" from the Plot Outline.

"Allen and Kendal": Ask the original contributor to provide evidence of the actual Internet release dates of the episodes. 

(edited)

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@gromit82​ This list of potential solutions is helpful. I think the more you can make it easier on IMDb staff to simply pursue an identified list of solutions, the more likely it will happen.

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4 years ago

I'm very concerned about the duration of this problem given the possible propagation of this incorrect idea (TV series before TV), and of the specific titles/characters originating on TV. Since IMDb is supposed to be so trustworthy about this topic, how many books, articles, websites, etc. now quote this misconception?

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4 years ago

Hi gromit82-

 

We actually are aware of the issue from your last post, there is still a ticket for the concerned team pending to solve this, and it will be cleaned, but we have to wait for now. Will do a callout to prioritize given the time it has been pending.

 

Thanks!