gromit82's profile
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Mon, Jan 13, 2014 7:13 AM

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39

Implementation of new genres

Back in July 2010, there was a discussion about new genres to be added to IMDb. After a discussion, eventually the following five genres were approved by the IMDb staff:

Soap Opera
Erotica
Awards Show
Experimental
Lifestyle

http://www.imdb.com/board/bd0000042/nest/165524169?p=3&d=167577501#167577501

In December 2010 and January 2011, contributors discussed definitions for each of the five new genres, which were in turn approved by the staff. 

http://www.imdb.com/board/bd0000042/nest/176453004 (Awards Show)
http://www.imdb.com/board/bd0000042/nest/176843542 (Erotica)
http://www.imdb.com/board/bd0000042/nest/176800928 (Experimental)
http://www.imdb.com/board/bd0000042/nest/175322002 (Lifestyle)
http://www.imdb.com/board/bd0000042/nest/176453288 (Soap Opera)

On January 31, 2011, then-staffer jaimie-k wrote that he was working hard to make the implementation of the genres happen as fast as possible.
http://www.imdb.com/board/bd0000042/nest/174139769?p=2&d=177533770#177533770

However, it has been almost three years since then, and none of the new genres have been implemented yet.

We haven't even gotten an explanation for the delay since May 2012, when we were told, "It is difficult to add new genres because it requires coordination across multiple sites, multiple mobile applications on multiple platforms and multiple languages."

http://www.imdb.com/board/bd0000042/nest/198586611?d=199705646#199705646

But that explanation doesn't sound right, because regardless of what application we use to view IMDb data, the underlying data is still stored the same way. The IMDb App for iPhone or Android or Windows Phone needs to know where to display the genre for a film -- but the app shouldn't need to be reprogrammed just because there are more genres that can be selected from. We're not talking about adding a new field of data -- we're just talking about adding new values to an existing field of data.

Or to put it another way, the Country of Origin field is another field where there are a finite number of choices that can be selected from. Suppose that Scotland or Catalonia or Flanders or Quebec became independent and started producing films and television shows. It wouldn't take years to add those new countries to the Country of Origin field. It would be done pretty quickly after the first new title was submitted with an "Explanation for missing information" identifying the film's Country of Origin as not being listed in the drop-down box.

In short, on a programming difficulty scale, where creating a program that prints "Hello, world!" is a 1, and getting Healthcare.gov (the "Obamacare" website) to operate properly is a 10, implementing the new genres should be no more than a 3. The IMDb programmers have done some much more complex programming than that in the last three and a half years. Please have them go ahead and implement the new genres without further delay.

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Il y a 5 y

Whilst I think it is a bit subjective I would like to see these...

Indie        (preferably limited by production cost)
Slasher    (as a distinct genre from horror)

added to the list of genres if it is ever expanded.

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Il y a 5 y

I feel the contributors of IMDb deserve an answer to the question "Is anyone working on implementing the new genres?"

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Il y a 5 y

Bump.

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Il y a 4 y

Once again, it's time for my annual re-visitation of this issue. It has now been eight years since the IMDb staff announced that the five new genres have been approved. Yet, to this day, those genres have never been implemented.

Eight years is a decent amount of time in which to accomplish a project. A U.S. president is only allowed eight years in office even if re-elected. The Beatles managed to sign their first recording contract, then have their entire career, and break up, all within the space of eight years. Eight years is nearly twice as long as World War I, and longer than World War II. 

I suspect that the problems are that (a) nobody at IMDb has been working on implementing the new genres, and (b) nobody at IMDb is even assigned to work on implementing the new genres. Hopefully this will change soon.

Thanks to ljdoncel, Kristin, Sann, and Marco for their support, in addition to the other people whom I have thanked before in this thread over the years.

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Thanks for this post Gromit.

For a database of films and tv shows, genres are part of the core data (just like country, language, year of release, director, main actors, color/b&w, running time, etc.). Year after year, it continues to amaze me that IMDb doesn't give this much more priority.

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July 29 2018

https://www.imdb.com/search/title
Advanced Title Search

Genres

[_] Action     [_] Adventure [_] Animation       [_] Biography

[_] Comedy  [_] Crime       [_] Documentary  [_] Drama

[_] Family    [_] Fantasy     [_] Film-Noir        [_] Game-Show

[_] History   [_] Horror        [_] Music             [_] Musical

[_] Mystery [_] News          [_] Reality-TV     [_] Romance

[_] Sci-Fi     [_] Sport         [_] Talk-Show      [_] Thriller

[_] War       [_] Western

- - -

Genres
Genre Definitions

https://help.imdb.com/article/contribution/titles/genres/GZDRMS6R742JRGAG?ref_=helpsrall



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October 8, 2018

IMDb Statistics
https://www.imdb.com/pressroom/stats/

Title Genres

• Drama........... 1,330,188
• Comedy........ 1,145,459
• Short................ 770,198
• Documentary... 529,741
• Talk_show...... 509,938
• Family............ 406,228
• News.............. 377,795
• Animation....... 274,750
• Reality_tv....... 258,115
• Music............. 250,383
• Crime............. 238,295
• Action............ 219,170
• Adventure..... 184,283
• Game_show.. 183,602
• Thriller........... 168,697
• Fantasy.......... 154,471
• Adult.............. 153,743
• Mystery......... 148,355
• Sci_fi............. 136,252
• Sport............. 119,347
• Horror........... 106,104
• History............ 78,323
• Biography....... 62,817
• Musical.......... 54,242
• War................ 33,423
• Western......... 31,274
• Film_noir............. 811

http://web.archive.org/web/20180915000000*/https://www.imdb.com/pressroom/stats/

.

(edited)

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8.1K Points

I've been trying to fill in missing data and genres for films from my country, and I so find that the options for genre are rather limited. I live in Turkey and believe it or not, many, I mean really many erotic films have been made during a 10-year period between the 70s and 80s, with many A-class actors and actresses being forced to perform (mostly non-erotic) roles in them. These films are quite a lot in number, but I cannot fill in their genres as adult, it applies only to hardcore pornography.

Likewise, I also suggested the imdb staff to add erotic films as a genre. You cannot say these are adult films, they are not. But what else can you possibly call a film that's full of nudity all along? Romance? Drama? Erotic films, or erotica as it's called to give it a more "I'm not here for the boobies, I'm here for the articles" kind of feel, are a genre which has existed for decades and is unique. It is a warning, for instance, that it's not meant for minors. Calling an erotic movie "romance" or "fantasy" removes that notion.

Like you, I was suggested to come here and open the idea up for discussion, to see if it will have support. But now I see that the matter aleady was opened to discussion, with all my points made years before me, but it's not implemented, "because it's difficult." This is kind of sad, since I consider it important: genres are very basic information about movies, yet it remains a missing option. We live in an age when we can see what movie celebrity eats what for breakfast, but critical information about the movies themselves remains sketchy.

Come to think of it, another genre that is a must in my opinion is martial arts movies.

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These films are quite a lot in number, but I cannot fill in their genres as adult, it applies only to hardcore pornography.

In those cases, you shouldn't add a genre. As you say, none of the current genres IMDb has to offer fit them, so they shouldn't have any. You shouldn't add a wrong genre just because IMDb doesn't have the right one.

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I was once told to add adult genre in some cases even if there is no nudity.

For example the IMDb has films regarding certain fetishes, they are either added as adventure or adult, but while they are not for a general public, they have nothing to do with pornography. Erotica would be great for them.


Also Experimental is needed for many artistic movies particullary shorts, that have nothing ressembling a plot and thus cannot fit any of the current genres.

Follow the IMDb Polls in Facebook and Twitter

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Il y a 3 y

Any updates of this?

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Il y a 3 y

Yes this looks like a good idea! What about 'Stand-up Show' and 'Concert' as well? :)

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Il y a 3 y

There are quite a few genres that could be added, and some that definitely must be added, but the problem is, it looks like nothing will be done about this. The first post on this was made 5 years ago.

It's kind of funny actually. As I try to fill in "data gaps" for stuff from my own country, I come across things like "bla bla movies of the year awards" or "the year's best models awards show" and imdb asks me to fill in the genre about them, but there's no option for awards shows.

It's like asking students to write an essay, then taking away their pencils, not allowing them to write anything.

And like I (and others too) pointed out, genres are basic, vital information about movies. Most of the other stuff being discussed on these boards are trifles in comparison.

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Il y a 3 y

Can a staff member please reply to this?

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Il y a 3 y

Why is 'Soap Opera' more important than 'Concert'?

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 "Concert" is covered by the "Music" category I think :-)

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That's not saying much. Also: the problem is that 'Concert' is now all being found under 'Documentary'. I don't have to tell you how inappropriate and misleading that is.

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Il y a 3 y

This is my annual bumping of the thread to request that the five new genres which were approved on July 25, 2010, be implemented and made available for use in the database. Yes, it has been over nine years since those genres were approved.

In June of this year, in the thread at https://getsatisfaction.com/imdb/topics/supernatural-genre, Col Needham referred to the "embarrassing nearly 9 year delay on already promised genres".

Unfortunately, I suspect that nobody has been assigned to work on implementing the genres for quite a while, and that's why the project hasn't gotten done.

For comparison, on May 25, 1961, President John F. Kennedy announced, "I believe that this nation should commit itself to achieving the goal, before this decade is out, of landing a man on the Moon and returning him safely to the Earth." And despite the difficulty of accomplishing that, the goal was accomplished in eight years and two months.

I don't think that adding five new genres to the Internet Movie Database is a project that should have taken longer than the project of sending people to the Moon, but nonetheless it has indeed taken longer than that.

And I'd like to thank Jeorj and Vincent for their support of this idea, in addition to the other people whom I have thanked over the years since this thread began.

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Thanks, gromit82.

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In June of this year, in the thread at https://getsatisfaction.com/imdb/topics/supernatural-genre, Col Needham referred to the "embarrassing nearly 9 year delay on already promised genres"

I thought that he said that because he knew a fix was coming, but I'm afraid I was a bit naive there :(

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Il y a 3 y

Even if they add them now, it's gonna take another decade to correct all those awards show titles from Reality-TV or whatever to Awards Show. You guys should've planned things ahead.
Cheers.

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Maybe.

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To correct all of them, yes, it'll take quite some time. But imdb is largely a contribution site, some people do take the time to add and correct information. A lot of movies would be corrected in a few months.

Provided that contributors are made aware of this option, of course. (perhaps a little icon of information near every movie's "genre" tag?)

And also provided that the new genre options are satisfactory and abundant. So that we wouldn't have to call Nasty Nurses In Heat a drama or romance, and we wouldn't have to call Steel Fingers of The Wang Yu Shaolin Temple an "action" film. 

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Provided that contributors are made aware of this option, of course.

Don't worry. When (or if?) IMDb adds new genres, they will definitely announce it.

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Il y a 3 y

As someone who's contributing for 15 years I can tell you that genres like:
* Concert
* Stand-up Show
* Martial Arts
* Awards Show

Are more important than:
* Soap Opera
* Lifestyle

Why? Because they're more represented in the database.

Also, maybe we can create a democratic strawpoll in which people here and the actual contributors can all have a say in which genres we want to be added the most?
Cheers!

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Why? Because they're more represented in the database.

I'm not so sure about that, because the whole point of this thread is that some genres aren't represented in the database. This means that not all soap operas or lifestyle titles can be easily found via keywords or the like. So there's really no good method of proving they're more or less represented in the database.

Apart from that, if you look at number of episodes, soap operas are of much more importance that all the concerts, stand-up shows and awards shows combined. Also, soap operas have been around since as long as tv has been around (the first soap operas aired on radio, well before television even existed), which, AFAIK, isn't the case for the broadcasting of awards shows or stand-up skits.

That all being said, this is, unfortunately, all moot because it might take years before IMDb adds the five new genres that have been mentioned upthread.

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M J and Marco: The five genres that were approved in 2010 were not necessarily my top 5 personal choices, but they were selected as a result of a poll on the Contributors Help message board, with the actual decision being made by the IMDb staff (I don't know whether the approved genres matched the top selections in the poll). So those are the genres that I've been requesting to be implemented ever since then.

I have no objection to other new genres being added in the future after the 5 I mentioned above, although I would recommend that another poll be taken so that the staff can get an idea of what the contributors actually prefer.

I just don't want to see a situation like the following:

A staff member posts here, "I have good news, more good news, and bad news. The first good news is that we're implementing the five new genres of Awards Show, Erotica, Experimental, Lifestyle, and Soap Opera immediately. You can start adding those genres to titles right now!"

Contributors: "Hooray!"

Staff member: "The next good news is that we're going to take a poll to select more genres to be added. So if you want to propose a Concert or a Martial Arts or a Religion or an Educational genre, you'll have the opportunity to do so."

Contributors: "Hooray!"

Staff member: "The bad news is that, when we added the five new genres, we didn't make it any easier to add additional new genres in the future. So whatever genres win this poll will wind up being added to IMDb sometime around the year 2028 ...."

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I just don't want to see a situation like the following: A staff member posts here, "I have good news, more good news, and bad news.




I totally understand, although by now, I'd be very happy just to have the first five new genres. Heck, I'd be ecstatic if they'd one new genre, in 2025. Hell, I'd even dance around in my living room if they'd even respond to this thread. :)


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I would predict --- never.

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Il y a 2 y

https://youtu.be/OEDc9cUKpo4?t=34
"Ten years come and gone so fast, I might as well be dreaming ..." -- Paul Simon

Yes, it's time for my annual bump of the request to implement the new genres that were approved on July 25, 2010.

The amount of time that has gone by since these genres were approved, and have not yet been implemented, is longer than it took to fight World War II or to accomplish John F. Kennedy's goal of sending astronauts to the moon. And the project of implementing the new genres should have been a lot less difficult than that. This should probably be a project that takes hours, not years, but I assume that nobody at IMDb is assigned to work on it.

Since the new genres were approved by the IMDb staff as something to be done a long time ago, they ought to be very high on the priority list.

Also, I recognize that there are other genres that some people would like to see added as well. I recommend that if any other genres are to be added, there should be a poll of contributors to see which ones should be added.

Thanks to the additional contributors here who have signed on to this idea over the last year -- Ed Jones, M J, precumbrium, Nick Burfle, Shape5, and Phil G -- as well as all the others who signed on before that and whom I thanked in previous years.

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By the way, anyone who supports implementing the new genres should click on "VOTE" at the upper right of this page if they haven't already done so.

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gromit82,

Sorry for voting for this idea earlier. I thought I had already done so.

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I hope a staff member will give an honest update, but I'm afraid I shouldn't hold my breath.

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Any update?

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Il y a 1 a

I'm going to bump this thread again, because posting just once a year hasn't been frequent enough to keep this issue in front of the IMDb staff. So for now, it will be semi-annual bumps, but in the future I may bump the thread more often than that.

Yes, we still need new genres to be added, and, just as important, we need to have the possibility of being able to add yet other genres in the future if there is enough support for them.

Also, I used to thank all the people who had voted in favor of this idea each time I posted an update here. Unfortunately, with the switch to Sprinklr, the old votes have disappeared -- yet another problem with the switchover. Furthermore, I can see that there are 4 votes in favor of this idea now ... but I can't see who they are. If anyone knows how to view the usernames of the people who have voted in favor of an idea such as this one, please let me know.

Ironically, I can view the names of the 10 people who liked my post above with the Paul Simon quote, for example, but not the names of the 4 people who like this whole idea/topic.

(edited)

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@gromit82,

You wrote:

Ironically, I can view the names of the 10 people who liked my post above with the Paul Simon quote, for example, but not the names of the 4 people who like this whole idea/topic.

I also cannot see the 4 people who like this whole idea/topic, but can see the 22 people who follow this thread. This may well be yet another "undocumented feature" (a tongue-in-cheek way of saying bug) of Sprinklr. Can you see the 22 people who follow this thread?

You may notice that symbol next the 4 is different than the symbol for likes. When I hover over the symbol next to the 4 it shows UpVotes, whereas when I hover over the the other Likes it shows Likes.

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Dan: Yes, I can view the full list of the people following this thread (now up to 23). You are correct to say that the term they use to indicate agreement with an idea is an UpVote (symbolized by an arrow pointing up), as distinct from a Like (symbolized by a thumbs-up).

Also, I see that this thread now has 8 UpVotes, an increase of 4 in less than a day. Hopefully someday Sprinklr will resolve the "undocumented feature" and make it possible for me to find out who those 8 excellent people are.

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gromit82,

I posted this as a problem in this thread:

It Does Not Appear Possible to View People who Have UpVoted an Idea Thread

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Il y a 1 a

I've given up any kind of hope, and frankly lost all interest, in whether this will be done or not. Clearly it won't.

Perhaps they'll do something about it and actually implement new genres, but only if someone complains on twitter about "how he/she/it/they feel sexually oppressed and abused, because of imdb's limited movie genre options". Other than that, I don't see much chance.

Funny, isn't it, how a company built around movies, for movie lovers, even having the "m" of movies in its name, doesn't actually care that much about them.

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I fully agree: I also have given up any expectation from IMDb. They are only after monetizing entertainement data. Period. Accuracy, consistency, integrity is beyond their scope. They just rely on volunteer users to do the job, and are even putting obstacles and a lack of communication to "help" them.

And things are even worse for non anglosaxon movies and series, and anything that does not fit into the Hollywood models.

There are only two items that are reliable from IMDb: its amount of data, unmatched by any other source, and birth and death dates of personalities (the so-called and ridiculous "celebs").

(edited)

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Perhaps they'll do something about it and actually implement new genres, but only if someone complains on twitter about "how he/she/it/they feel sexually oppressed and abused, because of imdb's limited movie genre options". Other than that, I don't see much chance.

Perhaps someone can point this out to Elliot Page? They might be able to pull some strings and fix this in a jiffy. :)