Breumaster's profile

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Sunday, August 1st, 2021 6:06 AM

Live Poll: Unforgettable Black Villains

Intro:

From time to time, black actors played unforgetable villains. Which of these villains is the most unforgettable?

Suggestions:

Aiming for 25 options.

Please suggest just iconic or at least very good or otherwise interesting black villains, not an extra actor playing a junkie at the corner for 10 seconds.

Please villains in Movies, no TV-Series, no documentations, no animated.

List: https://www.imdb.com/list/ls507169428/

List (Part II): https://www.imdb.com/list/ls507671602/

Poll (Part I): https://www.imdb.com/poll/fd2qEZw7Aj8/

Poll (Part II): Let's see, if we get enough other unforgettable black villains to fill it.

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3 years ago

FYC:

Adelaide Wilson in Us (2019)

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt6857112/mediaviewer/rm2869137665/

*might be considered as a spoiler*

Georges Rutaganda in Hotel Rwanda (2004)

No picture on IMDb

(edited)

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There is also Mr. Glass/Elijah Price in the Unbreakable franchise.

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt6823368/mediaviewer/rm1081762816/

(edited)

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@cinephile 

Adelaide Wilson is simply perfect! How could I forget her?

But you are also right with the spoiling. I'm not sure how to handle it. I'll try. Maybe we can figure out something.

I'll put both on the list. Thank you for suggesting.

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@cinephile 

I took another photo of Lupita Nyong'o. The movie deals with a scenario which is twisty, so maybe that is a solution.

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@cinephile 

Excellent! I'll put Mr. Glass on the list.

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3 years ago

25 options reached. I consider this list as ready to go. (except when there are necessary corrections). I still take suggestions. If there are better suggestions, I'd replace single options. But now further suggestions have to be excellent.

(edited)

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@mariojacobs 

Hi, Mario.

I know that in 'City of God' the characters are shown as kids and later as grown-ups, I saw it several times and it is a great movie. So why did I put Dadinho twice on the list? Because there are two great performances. And especially the child star played his role that made my bones chill. I can imagine that such things really happened and happen. It's good to show that up. Just think of the child soldiers in Afrika. Totally unbearable. But it's close to the same with Germany. In WWII a generation of young people was destroyed by war.

Now I got an idea of a perfect candidate: Beast of no Nation.

Mario, I'll take the Bond-Scoudrels on the list. Else the list is full.

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Skipped Geoffrey Holder for James Earl Jones.

(edited)

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Henriques: No.

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@simontedeschi 

How could I miss this bad ass? I'll put him on the list. Thank you.

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(let's keep in mind that he did redeem himself at the end, but yeah, he still qualifies as an antagonist)

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After your posting I would guess there are still better villains than him. Even though he is somehow "iconic".

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@Breumaster

Glover made for a far worst villain (a cold-blooded corrupt cop) the same year in Witness 

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@ElMaruecan82 

Thank you, I'll consider that.

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3 years ago

Ok, I aimed for 25 options, now there are 25. I say it's ready to go!

Except when there are correction to be made.

(edited)

Champion

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3 years ago

Jackie Brown as villain? Not sure about that.

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@Peter_pbn 

Of course she is. She used the constellation to trick both sides to get the $500.000. After all of them except Max were shot, she leaved and withdraw the money. She used Max to engineer it.

She did shady deals with the gun-runner at the beginning. A small villain, but ... 😁

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She's not a villain, she's a flawed protagonist, Samuel L. Jackson played the villain in the film.

'Villain' has a narrative meaning, it's the character whose actions act as obstacles in the hero's journey, don't get me wrong, the villain can be the main protagonist but he/she's got to be downright evil not to be called antihero (Jack Torrance, Tony Montana can be considered villains)

Peter is right, you've got to put things into perspective, within the context of the film, JB is a small-time-crook with a heart at the right place, if that makes her a villain, then half the characters of Hollywood movies are the incarnations of Satan.

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@ElMaruecan82 

Thank you for explaining, ElMo. :D Some translaters should really become more precise.

Your explanation makes sense, so I kicked Jackie Brown.

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@ElMaruecan82 , Peter:

Would you consider Ike Turner as a villain? I don't know if he would count, but I'm sure the would a be better black villains, even though he a real *ss. What would you say: Is there a better one? Maybe the third black Bond villain? I'd guess so.

(edited)

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Does that answer your question?

https://www.imdb.com/list/ls068437099/

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@ElMaruecan82

No, because showbiz villain doesn't mean best of ALL black villain in any kind. It's a different subject with complete different preconditions. And different opportunities. Especially because in your idea there are white people, too. While my idea focuses on black only villains.

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OK forget about the poll, and regardless of the real-life person, if your question is about the way he was portrayed in the film (after all, no one would accuse Joan Crawford of being a villain, but the way Faye Dunaway portrayed her, definitely)... and so the answer is yes, in my review I said about the performance: "As Ike, Fishburne plays a control freak who's despicable in the way he blames Anna to the point of gaslighting her, watching him is witnessing a slow descent into evil madness."

Villain in my book, he's got his smooth moments but after the first slap, there's a point of no return.

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@Peter_pbn 

Now I can put another woman instead of Jackie Brown on the list. May Day is really a bad one. But is she really bad enough for a villain? When I read ElMo's posting, I got the impression that a vilain has to be on boss level.

(edited)

Champion

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She has the role of antagonist to the hero, so I think she qualifies. It's true that she is not the main villain and her role also changes during the plot.

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@Peter_pbn 

That's exactly what I wanted to say, but on the other hand, ElMo's suggestion about Grace Jones is very good, too. I'm considering to still take 25 villains on the list and may do a second part. Then I could put the two different Ze's to the different poll ideas. That would be a compromise. Depending on the result of first part, I would do that. But I guess this one would run well.

(edited)

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3 years ago

I cut the spoiler image, so I can also remove the spoiler hint in the intro.

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3 years ago

From time to time, black actors played unforgetable movie villains. Which of these villains is the most unforgettable?

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3 years ago

I just kicked Ike Turner and Albert because of the poor quality of the available images. Baron Samedi and Candyman do have very much better images on IMDb, compared to the others and are true bad guys. Candyman is a former victim, but I know there might be still better options.

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3 years ago

Just kicked the guy from Hotel Ruanda for Dr. Douglas Grey because the image is better and he is more vile. He is more crafty and clever because of his job as a psychatrist. And I think he is more like unforgetable.

(edited)

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3 years ago

FYC:

Dr. Facilier

Mo'Nique in Precious

Jake in Fresh

I think you should stick to one picture of Lil'Ze (and include the child and adult version in the entry), the reason is pure logic: it's  character-driven poll so having two separate pictures for the same character will add confusion and split the votes, preventing the eventuality to have him on the Top 5 for instance.

Apollo Creed was a cocky showman but Rocky gave him a lesson of humility, nevertheless, he was the one who allowed Rocky to have a shot at the title and the real antagonism in the film was Rocky's own lack of self-confidence. I think Apollo comes the closest to a 'villain' in the second film but he's such an endearing character of the series that it's not very fair to have him among so many legitimate bad guys. Nothing to say about Clubber Lang, that dude was a beast.

Marcellus Wallace is a villain all right but I can't see someone giving him the edge over Jackson as Jules...

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@ElMaruecan82 

I think it's also intersting to see, how the ballance between lil'Ze and the grown up Ze is. I've put them not on the list by indecisseveness, but by the additional idea to get how the people will judge the performance of the kid and how they will judge the performance of the old 'Ze. It also is interesting for me, how the users decide to give it a weight according to the concurrence of both. That forces a more clear decision, because people have to think more about it before.

Apollo & Rocky: Sure! But did you see the images of Rocky II? There is not only one, in which Carl Weathers looks like a villain. But then at least I've chosen a color image, which reminds on the whole story of Rocky and Creed. Sometimes it's a lack of images. Maybe I'll find a better one, which lets him look like a real bad guy. ... Mr. T mostly all times looked like a real bad guy, but in some angles his acting had a minor loss of seriousness - one could see that he played that and rather is a very friendly guy in real life. ;)

I don't think so about Marcellus Wallace. You must have missed the part, when he begann to take some time with the perverts.  The cam was not showing that. It's left to the imagination of the audience what would follow.

(edited)

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@ElMaruecan82 

And Marcellus Wallace is one of the most known and remembered villains. Say his name. Everybody knows.

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I'm not questioning the rationale behind your choice (to which you're totally entitled) but as you put it, in order to be fair toward the two actors who played Lil Ze at various stages of his life, you decided to keep them both. I applaud that... but then I would suggest the emphasis to be on the performance rather than the character, it's just a matter of rewriting the question. Which villainous performance from a Black actor etc. etc.?

But I'm not 100% set on my opinion, you might put them both back to back and specify "as played by..." though I still believe each character should have one entry.

Regarding Apollo, I was just making a point and not a very relevant one anyway... I don't think Apollo has ever been a villain in any of the Rocky films, merely the obligatory opponent and a flashy and flamboyant character providing the perfect contrast with Rocky's "innocence". I think voters might be disconcerted by the inclusion of Apollo and some might even consider outrageous to label one of the most iconic African-American movie characters as a villain :)

As for Marcellus, lol let me get this straight: I didn't miss anything since Pulp Fiction is a movie I know by heart but it's funny that the part you mention when he threatens to go "all medieval" on Zed is certainly a moment where I'm sure audiences were cheering for him... would you expect a majority of viewers to root for a villain? Zed kind of had it coming... and let's not forget that at the same moment, Marcellus made peace with Butch...  well, sort of; he let him go.

My problem is that Marcellus starts like a villain, an enemy to Butch who's arguably the closest to a 'hero' in the film but as the plot moves on, Marcellus turns into a secondary protagonist and even an 'ally'... it's like Danny Glover in The Color Purple.

I think your poll raises an interesting question: does a villain stop to be a villain if he/she redeems himself at the end of the movie?

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I just thought, I'll kick Apollo, he isn't really a villain. But your answere came quicker. ;)

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I'm a fast writer... I missed the board for a long time so there's a lot to catch up...

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@ElMaruecan82 

No. Just because Marcellus Wallace does kill bad people doesn't mean he is no villain. The logic is false.

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Not saying it's two wrongs making a right, but in the case of Zed it was pretty much self-defense with a sadistic thrill for vengeance... of course, all the set-ups on Marcellus' character (the massage story, Jules and Vincent's missions, the hit on Butch etc.) establishes him as a villain... but the narrative turns him into a protagonist. I see your point but there's being a "bad guy" and "being a bad guy for the guys we root for"... we should consider that thin line.

If not, we should accept that Red in "The Shawshank Redemption" is a villain, he killed a man after all, and we don't even know if he deserved it.

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I'm watching a movie now. See you.

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I'm about to watch a movie now, see you.

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"If not, we should accept that Red in "The Shawshank Redemption" is a villain, he killed a man after all, and we don't even know if he deserved it."

Red regret's it, while Marcellus Wallace regrets nothing. That's because Red understood to have made an error while Wallace seems not to regret anything. All-in-all these two movies are made basically very different and are not compareable. That's not only a matter of logic.

When you look at Tarantino movies, they are made on a simple basis. Mostly all characters are bad persons, even his "heroes". Mostly all you can enjoy in his movies is the revenge, when the worst of the guys gets his punishment. All of his movies are unrealistic scenarios. That's basically ok, because he tells all what happens in an interesting way with pretty good dialogues and stage managing. But despite this I think he is overrated. These are movies for people which like to hate and to release their hate in joy when the badest gets killed. He just paints an exceptional unrealistic black image of each of his badest characters, for forcing hate in the audience and then let it release. The principle is always the same.

While Shawshank Redemption tells a pretty realistic story, which could have happened and it has very many humane scenes that tell a way better story than any of Tarantino's movies.

(edited)

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3 years ago

I guess Lando shouldn't be there.

FYC:

Black Manta from Aquaman

Electro from The Amazing Spider-Man 2

Jatemme Manning in Widows

Valentine in Kingsman

(edited)

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I also second the choice of:

Mo'Nique in Precious

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Bombaata , Conan the Destroyer

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3 years ago

I've made a Part II list which is linked in the intro and will fill some of the suggestions which were made into it, but not all. I search for unforgettable black villains. Which means not every black villain. please try to find the best possible black villain no wheter if it is a especially good performance or a very distinct black villain character in a popular movie or independent gem, which many people have seen and will remember. It's also a poll-idea for honoring the actors for their courage to do so and did outstanding interesting/good/impressive performances.

(edited)

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In case if you are not considering then to push further. 😀

Daniel Kaluuya's performance in Widows should be considered.

Jamie Foxx as Electro is not considered one of his best role but that was courageous for him to take on a traditionally white character.

Black Manta and Valentine are both from relatively popular films but not sure about longevity of the popularity since they are still newer. 

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@Brijesh 

Sure, Brijesh. I will consider these. But in the moment I'll concentrate on othe poll ideas. This one will be worked out later. I'll pause the subject for a little time. Also because I got a lot of work and have to do some fitness workouts, go to cinema, etc. I've got an extended need after the covid lock downs. ;)

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3 years ago

Correction:

From time to time, black actors played unforgettable villains.

And please add the character name in the last option.

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@Jessica 

Corrected "tt" and filled in the name of Mo'Niques character Mary.