gromit82's profile
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Monday, January 13th, 2014 7:13 AM

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47

Implementation of new genres

Back in July 2010, there was a discussion about new genres to be added to IMDb. After a discussion, eventually the following five genres were approved by the IMDb staff:

Soap Opera
Erotica
Awards Show
Experimental
Lifestyle

http://www.imdb.com/board/bd0000042/nest/165524169?p=3&d=167577501#167577501

In December 2010 and January 2011, contributors discussed definitions for each of the five new genres, which were in turn approved by the staff. 

http://www.imdb.com/board/bd0000042/nest/176453004 (Awards Show)
http://www.imdb.com/board/bd0000042/nest/176843542 (Erotica)
http://www.imdb.com/board/bd0000042/nest/176800928 (Experimental)
http://www.imdb.com/board/bd0000042/nest/175322002 (Lifestyle)
http://www.imdb.com/board/bd0000042/nest/176453288 (Soap Opera)

On January 31, 2011, then-staffer jaimie-k wrote that he was working hard to make the implementation of the genres happen as fast as possible.
http://www.imdb.com/board/bd0000042/nest/174139769?p=2&d=177533770#177533770

However, it has been almost three years since then, and none of the new genres have been implemented yet.

We haven't even gotten an explanation for the delay since May 2012, when we were told, "It is difficult to add new genres because it requires coordination across multiple sites, multiple mobile applications on multiple platforms and multiple languages."

http://www.imdb.com/board/bd0000042/nest/198586611?d=199705646#199705646

But that explanation doesn't sound right, because regardless of what application we use to view IMDb data, the underlying data is still stored the same way. The IMDb App for iPhone or Android or Windows Phone needs to know where to display the genre for a film -- but the app shouldn't need to be reprogrammed just because there are more genres that can be selected from. We're not talking about adding a new field of data -- we're just talking about adding new values to an existing field of data.

Or to put it another way, the Country of Origin field is another field where there are a finite number of choices that can be selected from. Suppose that Scotland or Catalonia or Flanders or Quebec became independent and started producing films and television shows. It wouldn't take years to add those new countries to the Country of Origin field. It would be done pretty quickly after the first new title was submitted with an "Explanation for missing information" identifying the film's Country of Origin as not being listed in the drop-down box.

In short, on a programming difficulty scale, where creating a program that prints "Hello, world!" is a 1, and getting Healthcare.gov (the "Obamacare" website) to operate properly is a 10, implementing the new genres should be no more than a 3. The IMDb programmers have done some much more complex programming than that in the last three and a half years. Please have them go ahead and implement the new genres without further delay.

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244 Points

7 years ago

Whilst I think it is a bit subjective I would like to see these...

Indie        (preferably limited by production cost)
Slasher    (as a distinct genre from horror)

added to the list of genres if it is ever expanded.

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7 years ago

I feel the contributors of IMDb deserve an answer to the question "Is anyone working on implementing the new genres?"

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7 years ago

Bump.

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6 years ago

Once again, it's time for my annual re-visitation of this issue. It has now been eight years since the IMDb staff announced that the five new genres have been approved. Yet, to this day, those genres have never been implemented.

Eight years is a decent amount of time in which to accomplish a project. A U.S. president is only allowed eight years in office even if re-elected. The Beatles managed to sign their first recording contract, then have their entire career, and break up, all within the space of eight years. Eight years is nearly twice as long as World War I, and longer than World War II. 

I suspect that the problems are that (a) nobody at IMDb has been working on implementing the new genres, and (b) nobody at IMDb is even assigned to work on implementing the new genres. Hopefully this will change soon.

Thanks to ljdoncel, Kristin, Sann, and Marco for their support, in addition to the other people whom I have thanked before in this thread over the years.

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6 years ago

Any updates of this?

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6 years ago

Yes this looks like a good idea! What about 'Stand-up Show' and 'Concert' as well? :)

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6 years ago

Can a staff member please reply to this?

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6 years ago

Why is 'Soap Opera' more important than 'Concert'?

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 "Concert" is covered by the "Music" category I think :-)

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That's not saying much. Also: the problem is that 'Concert' is now all being found under 'Documentary'. I don't have to tell you how inappropriate and misleading that is.

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5 years ago

This is my annual bumping of the thread to request that the five new genres which were approved on July 25, 2010, be implemented and made available for use in the database. Yes, it has been over nine years since those genres were approved.

In June of this year, in the thread at https://getsatisfaction.com/imdb/topics/supernatural-genre, Col Needham referred to the "embarrassing nearly 9 year delay on already promised genres".

Unfortunately, I suspect that nobody has been assigned to work on implementing the genres for quite a while, and that's why the project hasn't gotten done.

For comparison, on May 25, 1961, President John F. Kennedy announced, "I believe that this nation should commit itself to achieving the goal, before this decade is out, of landing a man on the Moon and returning him safely to the Earth." And despite the difficulty of accomplishing that, the goal was accomplished in eight years and two months.

I don't think that adding five new genres to the Internet Movie Database is a project that should have taken longer than the project of sending people to the Moon, but nonetheless it has indeed taken longer than that.

And I'd like to thank Jeorj and Vincent for their support of this idea, in addition to the other people whom I have thanked over the years since this thread began.

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In June of this year, in the thread at https://getsatisfaction.com/imdb/topics/supernatural-genre, Col Needham referred to the "embarrassing nearly 9 year delay on already promised genres"

I thought that he said that because he knew a fix was coming, but I'm afraid I was a bit naive there :(

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5 years ago

Even if they add them now, it's gonna take another decade to correct all those awards show titles from Reality-TV or whatever to Awards Show. You guys should've planned things ahead.
Cheers.

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Provided that contributors are made aware of this option, of course.

Don't worry. When (or if?) IMDb adds new genres, they will definitely announce it.

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5 years ago

As someone who's contributing for 15 years I can tell you that genres like:
* Concert
* Stand-up Show
* Martial Arts
* Awards Show

Are more important than:
* Soap Opera
* Lifestyle

Why? Because they're more represented in the database.

Also, maybe we can create a democratic strawpoll in which people here and the actual contributors can all have a say in which genres we want to be added the most?
Cheers!

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Why? Because they're more represented in the database.

I'm not so sure about that, because the whole point of this thread is that some genres aren't represented in the database. This means that not all soap operas or lifestyle titles can be easily found via keywords or the like. So there's really no good method of proving they're more or less represented in the database.

Apart from that, if you look at number of episodes, soap operas are of much more importance that all the concerts, stand-up shows and awards shows combined. Also, soap operas have been around since as long as tv has been around (the first soap operas aired on radio, well before television even existed), which, AFAIK, isn't the case for the broadcasting of awards shows or stand-up skits.

That all being said, this is, unfortunately, all moot because it might take years before IMDb adds the five new genres that have been mentioned upthread.

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M J and Marco: The five genres that were approved in 2010 were not necessarily my top 5 personal choices, but they were selected as a result of a poll on the Contributors Help message board, with the actual decision being made by the IMDb staff (I don't know whether the approved genres matched the top selections in the poll). So those are the genres that I've been requesting to be implemented ever since then.

I have no objection to other new genres being added in the future after the 5 I mentioned above, although I would recommend that another poll be taken so that the staff can get an idea of what the contributors actually prefer.

I just don't want to see a situation like the following:

A staff member posts here, "I have good news, more good news, and bad news. The first good news is that we're implementing the five new genres of Awards Show, Erotica, Experimental, Lifestyle, and Soap Opera immediately. You can start adding those genres to titles right now!"

Contributors: "Hooray!"

Staff member: "The next good news is that we're going to take a poll to select more genres to be added. So if you want to propose a Concert or a Martial Arts or a Religion or an Educational genre, you'll have the opportunity to do so."

Contributors: "Hooray!"

Staff member: "The bad news is that, when we added the five new genres, we didn't make it any easier to add additional new genres in the future. So whatever genres win this poll will wind up being added to IMDb sometime around the year 2028 ...."

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I just don't want to see a situation like the following: A staff member posts here, "I have good news, more good news, and bad news.




I totally understand, although by now, I'd be very happy just to have the first five new genres. Heck, I'd be ecstatic if they'd one new genre, in 2025. Hell, I'd even dance around in my living room if they'd even respond to this thread. :)


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I would predict --- never.

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4 years ago

https://youtu.be/OEDc9cUKpo4?t=34
"Ten years come and gone so fast, I might as well be dreaming ..." -- Paul Simon

Yes, it's time for my annual bump of the request to implement the new genres that were approved on July 25, 2010.

The amount of time that has gone by since these genres were approved, and have not yet been implemented, is longer than it took to fight World War II or to accomplish John F. Kennedy's goal of sending astronauts to the moon. And the project of implementing the new genres should have been a lot less difficult than that. This should probably be a project that takes hours, not years, but I assume that nobody at IMDb is assigned to work on it.

Since the new genres were approved by the IMDb staff as something to be done a long time ago, they ought to be very high on the priority list.

Also, I recognize that there are other genres that some people would like to see added as well. I recommend that if any other genres are to be added, there should be a poll of contributors to see which ones should be added.

Thanks to the additional contributors here who have signed on to this idea over the last year -- Ed Jones, M J, precumbrium, Nick Burfle, Shape5, and Phil G -- as well as all the others who signed on before that and whom I thanked in previous years.

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By the way, anyone who supports implementing the new genres should click on "VOTE" at the upper right of this page if they haven't already done so.

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gromit82,

Sorry for voting for this idea earlier. I thought I had already done so.

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I hope a staff member will give an honest update, but I'm afraid I shouldn't hold my breath.

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Any update?

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4 years ago

I'm going to bump this thread again, because posting just once a year hasn't been frequent enough to keep this issue in front of the IMDb staff. So for now, it will be semi-annual bumps, but in the future I may bump the thread more often than that.

Yes, we still need new genres to be added, and, just as important, we need to have the possibility of being able to add yet other genres in the future if there is enough support for them.

Also, I used to thank all the people who had voted in favor of this idea each time I posted an update here. Unfortunately, with the switch to Sprinklr, the old votes have disappeared -- yet another problem with the switchover. Furthermore, I can see that there are 4 votes in favor of this idea now ... but I can't see who they are. If anyone knows how to view the usernames of the people who have voted in favor of an idea such as this one, please let me know.

Ironically, I can view the names of the 10 people who liked my post above with the Paul Simon quote, for example, but not the names of the 4 people who like this whole idea/topic.

(edited)

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@gromit82,

You wrote:

Ironically, I can view the names of the 10 people who liked my post above with the Paul Simon quote, for example, but not the names of the 4 people who like this whole idea/topic.

I also cannot see the 4 people who like this whole idea/topic, but can see the 22 people who follow this thread. This may well be yet another "undocumented feature" (a tongue-in-cheek way of saying bug) of Sprinklr. Can you see the 22 people who follow this thread?

You may notice that symbol next the 4 is different than the symbol for likes. When I hover over the symbol next to the 4 it shows UpVotes, whereas when I hover over the the other Likes it shows Likes.

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Dan: Yes, I can view the full list of the people following this thread (now up to 23). You are correct to say that the term they use to indicate agreement with an idea is an UpVote (symbolized by an arrow pointing up), as distinct from a Like (symbolized by a thumbs-up).

Also, I see that this thread now has 8 UpVotes, an increase of 4 in less than a day. Hopefully someday Sprinklr will resolve the "undocumented feature" and make it possible for me to find out who those 8 excellent people are.

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4 years ago

I see that this thread has gone from 8 upvotes to 36 upvotes in the last 5 days. That's more than the number of supporters this idea ever had on the GS board, as far as I can tell. 

Thank you to all 36 people who are supporting this idea. If Sprinklr ever makes your identities publicly known, I'll be happy to thank you by username later.

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O, I think, the forum administrator or the Sprinklr tech staff converted the existing "likes" into up-votes, because I've not voted for any idea threads except for just one of Breumaster's poll suggestions from a while ago, which was by accident.

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I think you’re right.  When I posted about this very issue 2 days ago most of my ideas still had 0 votes after the conversion to the new Sprinklr forum.  Now they all have votes.

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To clarify, the forum interface is indicating that I'm unable to up-vote this idea thread even though I never actually clicked the up-vote button but only the "like" (thumbs up) button back when the forum platform was GetSatisfaction. That's cool, I guess. Perhaps now I can let go of my hang up about either up-voting or down-voting idea threads. I'm still going to avoid down-voting any threads until the ability to "unvote" (rescind a vote) is made available, since I don't want to have to up-vote a proposal about which I have only partially changed my mind or am sincerely uncertain.

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4 years ago

@marco  Pointed out (thanks) that I should share the update from https://community-imdb.sprinklr.com/conversations/data-issues-policy-discussions/why-does-robert-minkoffs-filmography-consist-of-playing-the-same-uncredited-character-of-bit-in-everything/6067ab0fe9d6176949861ef7?commentId=6068203b439e980adff75a91&replyId=60682936439e980adff75b36 here:

As to new genres ... first, yes, this is indeed embarrassing and I wish it had been simpler to deploy them.  Between the first genre expansion and the second, technology changed and complexity increased.  It is not as easy to launch new genres as it should be because of entanglements between different IMDb systems.  Originally we could update a couple of systems in/behind the www.imdb.com site and we would be done. Now we have the main site, the mobile site, the iPhone app, the iPad app, the Android app, the IMDbPro site, the IMDbPro mobile site, the IMDbPro mobile app, multiple language translations behind all of the above, the systems used for our licensing business, the data we share with Amazon systems which drive experiences on Amazon, on Fire TV and on Alexa and more.  Some of those are shared systems, but not all of them are, and the effects of a change cannot always be known in advance due to the distance between where the data is stored vs. where it is presented to customers. For example, if a data change (like a new genre) is made in IMDb’s core data store and we discover a week later that this change is causing Android app crashes for customers in Portugal, then getting a new version approved and distributed to those customers is not just not as easy as instantly changing the config of one web site back in 2009.  We are addressing this behind-the-scenes with new technology, simplifications and cleaner APIs and we are improving week by week, but it is still a long journey.  For example, the new IMDb title pages which are currently in beta are based on a new technology platform which eliminates the need for a separate mobile site and has components already being used by our mobile apps, and with a much cleaner API.  We are heading back to a world in which a new genre is one config change (and a few language translations). 

The other issue with new genres is that we already have a very flexible plot keywords system which is always easy to extend.  There are few things that genres can do which are not already covered by plot-keywords; maybe not quite as visible / convenient, but equally not (yet) worth the effort and risk of turning some of them into genres for the reasons explained above. 

Hope this helps. 

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@Col_Needham Thanks Col.

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This information has led me to believe that genre assignments might be organized into a sort of "bit field" data structure, a collection of "yes" switches and "no" switches, at least on some of the platforms, but that the "switch board" of sorts is fixed in size, whereby no more switches can be added. It may be impossible to ensure that all devices will be able to understand an updated specification, since the devices themselves would have be upgraded, and invariably some will be left behind as "unsupported" for not upgrading, which is a thing that customers have been known to complain about.