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Thursday, October 24th, 2019 1:06 AM

Live Poll: Are Marvel Movies Cinema?


Recently, Martin Scorsese was the first of several respected directors in world Cinema that made controversial declarations about Superhero films. Other have defended this kind of movies.

With which declaration do you agree the most?

https://www.imdb.com/list/ls097728195/

https://www.imdb.com/poll/AwhTSuHanew/

There are many other declarations, but I just added the three that have produced more comments and three other that I found interesting to avoid repeating the same ideas.

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165.4K Points

5 years ago

The old generation of directors reminds me on the actor generation when silent movies became talkies. But otherways - when I look at cinema when the lights are on, there are so many people with 50, 60, 70 years of age, ... Those comics are older than 70 years. When I was young, they even were depreciated as kids only stuff. But the stories I read (some, I'm no crack about the comics, either) in those comics have special qualities, society depreciated unfairly. Mostly it's a lack of fantasy of the reader for this kind of stories. And gosh! - I can't even imagine Scorsese or Francis Ford Coppola reading a comic book. They are too reality bound for it, when I look at their (surely great) movies. It's clearly another generation and not their cup of meat. Today the audience allows itself to be open for this kind of stuff. And it's clearly more fun to watch the movies open minded. So I agree with James Gunn.

For me these movies are cinematic, they create more fun watching them on a big as can be screen with as many as possible people in the audience to get the atmosphere even more dynamic. And what many critics never get right about the MCU - since now it's a big connected story over more than 20 movies. Some critics only see the single movies and wonder what happens. Not the prob of so many fans that are pleased about it. Let's enjoy the next superhero movies. I do. (When it comes to DC, I try to) :D

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5 years ago

I tend to agree with Bob Iger

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124K Points

5 years ago

Wow, they all have something good to say that I can agree with.  This is tough for me, because I don't want to say that all superhero movies are crap.  Some I have seen I wish would go away forever.  ;)  Others are actually pretty good, although I still wouldn't consider them 'art'.  But, that's not to say that one day there will be a Marvel movie that really brings the taste.  So I think for now the quote I relate to the most is Martin Scorsese's.  Although if I really wanted to lash out because I'd just seen Spider-Man: Homecoming or something I'd quote Francis Ford Coppola.

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47K Points

5 years ago

While I am certainly critical of Marvel, it is too easy too draw a line between "cinema" and "theme parks". Do the Russo Brothers try to convey emotional, psychological experiences to another human being? They would probably say yes and cite moments like (hope that's not a spoiler) "I am Iron Man". The question is to what extent they succeed.

When Ken Loach says that,
They are an exercise on the market and it has nothing to do with the art of cinema.
he ignores the fact that a good number of artistically valuable movies were intended as nothing but money makers.

I don't agree with James Gunn and Bob Igler either, because they seem to misunderstand Scorsese's point, who was neither talking about all superhero movies, and who explicitly didn't go against the actors and crew members involved.

As of now, I'd probably vote for Benedict Cumberbatch's supremely diplomatic answer, although it is a less interesting contribution to the debate.

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Yes, I respect him for being so honest yet bold.

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Or one could say he obscures the fact that Disney is becoming a monopoly. Like a politician who calls for peace publicly but lets his country sell weapons to dubious other countries.

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5 years ago

I agree mostly with Ken Loach that, sadly, they are mostly commodities. In general, I think that they have more to do with the market than with art but I think that there can certainly be exceptions. I don't think that there have been many exceptions, though: even when they're done well, the motivation for them seems more to do with the box office than with art.

There's no rule, though, that all movies have to be high art. I tend to like it a lot more when they are but I think there's room for pure entertainment. My biggest problem with them is that they saturate the market and too often push out or down smarter and more culturally important films. 

'Great idea for a poll!

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34.3K Points

5 years ago

I agree with Ken Loach and Rub: D, and probably also with Jon Favreau https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theg...

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No, it really doesn't contribute anything to the debate, I feel that Favreau opinion has some joking tone.

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After analyzing it a bit I think that James Gunn and Benedict Cumberbatch also have very successful points, I do not think that all this genre is as rotten as Scorsese and Coppola affirm, good movies have been made that could represent the genre, however those that I consider as the best superhero movies are out of MCU, so when this poll is specifically directed towards Marvel movies, my opinion changes dramatically, MCU is not minimally interested in creating an artistic-level cinema.

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326.6K Points

5 years ago

Suggested correction:

Others have defended

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Thanks, corrected.

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5 years ago


Wow, it is rare when my suggestion have so much answers, I am very happy with the debate we are having.

For Me, It is a hard answer for Me because I love comic books, but I hardly consider any of the movies to be Art, they are entertainment, and a very welcome one, and a few manage to be something else. Their real value will be evident or not after some years.
I think I would vote for James Gunn opinion, but Loach and Cumberbacht have good points.

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5 years ago

@all: It's ok of anybody to tell the free speech. I did. ;)

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5 years ago

Either Benedict or Gunn's sentiment.

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5 years ago

As I said before, I really like this poll suggestion. I just noticed a typo in the intro. The correction is below in bold. :)

Others have defended these kind of movies.

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326.6K Points

If you use 'these', then I think "these kinds" would be more correct.

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I wasn't online yesterday.
It is corrected now.

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5 years ago

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5 years ago


Thanks.

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5 years ago

Martin Scorsese: I Said Marvel Movies Aren’t Cinema. Let Me Explain.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/04/op...

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Peter, I can totally agree with these movies mostly taking fewer risks these days. MCU is so mapped out you can practically see what's brewing for next movies in such a detail, especially with other movies being tie-ins that hardly anything can surprise you. That said, Spider-Man: Far From Home (2019) genuinely surprised me with some of the commentary and scenes, so it's not like they're not taking any risks: they just take much fewer. 

And I love his point about Alfred Hitchcock being his own franchise. As much as I love and like certain franchises, it's hardly comparable with how satisfying it is to know that certain directors have something to offer in each of their movies, regardless of whether it's relatively small or huge, often even regardless of genre. That personal flavor is not entirely missing (in fact MCU often picks up some of the most distinctive directors and it shows), but I can't help but be more interested in some intriguing no budget film debut more than some of the biggest movies right now, even though I am a big sucker for superhero genre. 

I'm kinda partial on his pessimism, though: independent filmmaking is not exactly in full decline and I mean, superhero franchise or not, but a $55M R-rated movie with arthouse sensibilities just somehow earned almost a billion and earlier another unusual take on the same theme that causes so much fatigue earned it's budget more than 10 times at the box office as well. Both Glass and Joker make me hopeful, because despite brutal and rather pressing environment they were still successes and I have a strong feeling that both will also hold up much well than some of the MCU movies. They already hold up better in my case: I never went to see any of the MCU movies twice because so far there wasn't one that ever resonated with me enough to make such an impact. And yet I saw both aforementioned movies twice this year, despite busy schedule. Hopefully, there is always room for smaller movies and passion projects. 

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4 years ago

Congratulations penchofifteenpolls on your 126th live poll! As of 2-Mar-2020 3:35 AM Pacific your polls have 207,705 or more votes, for an average of 1,648 votes per poll.

Are Marvel Movies Cinema?
8283rd Live Poll: https://www.imdb.com/poll/AwhTSuHanew/

This is the 957th People poll. Such polls have a total of 1,757,568 votes for an average of 1,837 votes per poll.
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