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Friday, November 11th, 2022 6:38 PM

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Wrong re-direct of keyword terms

Escaped prisoner and escaped convict are not the same thing. An escaped prisoner can be a prisoner of war, a hostage or whatever. An escape convict is a specific thing, a person escaping from prison after being convicted of a crime.

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2 years ago

Here is the merger you're referencing and my list where it came from.

prison-escapee (78 titles)  -->  escape-prisoners (4 titles)  -->  escaped-jailbird (2 titles)  -->  escaped-criminal (50 titles)  --> escaped-convict (540 titles)  -->  escaped-convicts (6 titles)  --> escaped-inmate (12 titles)  -->  escaped-prisoner (521 titles)

Duplicate Keywords - List #26 (Proposals for Permanent Merger and Auto-Conversion) (time travel, kiss, incarceration, prison, jail)

You are correct that an escaped prisoner of war and an escaped convict are both also escaped prisoners. That's pretty much why "escaped-convict" was merged into "escaped-prisoner" -- because all escaped convicts are escaped prisoners (but not the other way around), and also because too many people were using one or the other of these terms when they all intended to refer to the same thing. 

If it had been the other way around (merging "escaped-prisoner" into "escaped-convict"), then it would have been a problem, because not all escaped prisoners are escaped convicts. Fortunately this was not my recommendation, nor is that what happened.

It sounds like you are advocating for "escaped-prisoner" and "escaped-convict" to be kept as two separate keywords, because "prisoner" is slightly broader than "convict." There are a couple problems to consider there.

First, at this point it's literally impossible to undo these mergers once they are done. So the 540 titles that previously had "escaped-convict" cannot be regained. In other words, the merger can't be reversed.

Second, for the future, the auto-conversion could be undone now, but then some contributors would again start using "escaped-convict" and others would use "escaped-prisoner" when they are both intending to refer to the same exact type of character. That was one of the main problems intended to be solved with the merger and auto-conversion in the first place.

When you put those two problems together, it's quite a mess. If the auto-conversion were undone, then the only appropriate way I can think of to fix those two problems going forward would be to make sure that any title that gets the "escaped-convict" keyword also gets the "escaped-prisoner" keyword, both on the same title.

Just to summarize, you are correct that the meaning of "escaped-prisoner" is broader than "escaped-convict." But at the same time, merging "escaped-convict" into "escaped-prisoner" does not result in any inaccuracies. 

No doubt the vast majority of current instances of the "escaped-prisoner" keyword refer to characters who have escaped from prison. But at the same time, the keyword "escaped-prisoner" can and does encompass all the other potential meanings you mentioned as well (escaped prisoners of war, etc.), without causing any problems.

With all that in mind, do you still believe the auto-conversion should be undone, so that "escaped-convict" no longer auto-converts to "escaped-prisoner?"

(edited)

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@keyword_expert​ 

Yes. The terms are not interchangeable and can represent vastly different things. You can even have a prisoner escape from jail who is not a convict because they are awaiting trial.

This also brings up a point that I've wanted to make. I'd love to see when you add a keyword like "escaped-convict" that it automatically adds keywords that are implied like "escaped-prisoner" and "convict".

(edited)

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@adrian​ 

Yes. The terms are not interchangeable and can represent vastly different things. 

Okay, that's fine by me. We may need to start a new thread requesting action by staff.

This also brings up a point that I've wanted to make. I'd love to see when you add a keyword like "escaped-convict" that it automatically adds keywords that are implied like "escaped-prisoner" and "convict".

This is a good idea that has been suggested before. You should upvote this thread by @Skavau:

Keywords: Implement a Hierarchical System

(edited)

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@Bethanny @Fran 

Is IMDb staff willing to undo the auto-conversion from "escaped-convict" to "escaped-prisoner?" The discussion between me and @adrian in this thread explains why that would be an acceptable outcome. 

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Often when I think of escaped convicts, I think indeed of persons who managed to get loose on the way from the courthouse (jail, detention or holding) to the penitentiary or reformatory. They are prisoners but they haven't necessarily escaped from the prison site. Yet, furthermore, usually new convicts are transported in the custody of the captor agency. The idea of applying both keywords make sense, for the one that implies both.

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@keyword_expert​ We can definitely revert the auto-conversion, just not the merges previously done. I have reverted now.

Cheers!

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@Bethanny​ Thank you!