gromit82's profile
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Mon, Jan 13, 2014 7:13 AM

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39

Implementation of new genres

Back in July 2010, there was a discussion about new genres to be added to IMDb. After a discussion, eventually the following five genres were approved by the IMDb staff:

Soap Opera
Erotica
Awards Show
Experimental
Lifestyle

http://www.imdb.com/board/bd0000042/nest/165524169?p=3&d=167577501#167577501

In December 2010 and January 2011, contributors discussed definitions for each of the five new genres, which were in turn approved by the staff. 

http://www.imdb.com/board/bd0000042/nest/176453004 (Awards Show)
http://www.imdb.com/board/bd0000042/nest/176843542 (Erotica)
http://www.imdb.com/board/bd0000042/nest/176800928 (Experimental)
http://www.imdb.com/board/bd0000042/nest/175322002 (Lifestyle)
http://www.imdb.com/board/bd0000042/nest/176453288 (Soap Opera)

On January 31, 2011, then-staffer jaimie-k wrote that he was working hard to make the implementation of the genres happen as fast as possible.
http://www.imdb.com/board/bd0000042/nest/174139769?p=2&d=177533770#177533770

However, it has been almost three years since then, and none of the new genres have been implemented yet.

We haven't even gotten an explanation for the delay since May 2012, when we were told, "It is difficult to add new genres because it requires coordination across multiple sites, multiple mobile applications on multiple platforms and multiple languages."

http://www.imdb.com/board/bd0000042/nest/198586611?d=199705646#199705646

But that explanation doesn't sound right, because regardless of what application we use to view IMDb data, the underlying data is still stored the same way. The IMDb App for iPhone or Android or Windows Phone needs to know where to display the genre for a film -- but the app shouldn't need to be reprogrammed just because there are more genres that can be selected from. We're not talking about adding a new field of data -- we're just talking about adding new values to an existing field of data.

Or to put it another way, the Country of Origin field is another field where there are a finite number of choices that can be selected from. Suppose that Scotland or Catalonia or Flanders or Quebec became independent and started producing films and television shows. It wouldn't take years to add those new countries to the Country of Origin field. It would be done pretty quickly after the first new title was submitted with an "Explanation for missing information" identifying the film's Country of Origin as not being listed in the drop-down box.

In short, on a programming difficulty scale, where creating a program that prints "Hello, world!" is a 1, and getting Healthcare.gov (the "Obamacare" website) to operate properly is a 10, implementing the new genres should be no more than a 3. The IMDb programmers have done some much more complex programming than that in the last three and a half years. Please have them go ahead and implement the new genres without further delay.

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1年前

I see that this thread has gone from 8 upvotes to 36 upvotes in the last 5 days. That's more than the number of supporters this idea ever had on the GS board, as far as I can tell. 

Thank you to all 36 people who are supporting this idea. If Sprinklr ever makes your identities publicly known, I'll be happy to thank you by username later.

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O, I think, the forum administrator or the Sprinklr tech staff converted the existing "likes" into up-votes, because I've not voted for any idea threads except for just one of Breumaster's poll suggestions from a while ago, which was by accident.

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I think you’re right.  When I posted about this very issue 2 days ago most of my ideas still had 0 votes after the conversion to the new Sprinklr forum.  Now they all have votes.

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To clarify, the forum interface is indicating that I'm unable to up-vote this idea thread even though I never actually clicked the up-vote button but only the "like" (thumbs up) button back when the forum platform was GetSatisfaction. That's cool, I guess. Perhaps now I can let go of my hang up about either up-voting or down-voting idea threads. I'm still going to avoid down-voting any threads until the ability to "unvote" (rescind a vote) is made available, since I don't want to have to up-vote a proposal about which I have only partially changed my mind or am sincerely uncertain.

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1年前

@marco  Pointed out (thanks) that I should share the update from https://community-imdb.sprinklr.com/conversations/data-issues-policy-discussions/why-does-robert-minkoffs-filmography-consist-of-playing-the-same-uncredited-character-of-bit-in-everything/6067ab0fe9d6176949861ef7?commentId=6068203b439e980adff75a91&replyId=60682936439e980adff75b36 here:

As to new genres ... first, yes, this is indeed embarrassing and I wish it had been simpler to deploy them.  Between the first genre expansion and the second, technology changed and complexity increased.  It is not as easy to launch new genres as it should be because of entanglements between different IMDb systems.  Originally we could update a couple of systems in/behind the www.imdb.com site and we would be done. Now we have the main site, the mobile site, the iPhone app, the iPad app, the Android app, the IMDbPro site, the IMDbPro mobile site, the IMDbPro mobile app, multiple language translations behind all of the above, the systems used for our licensing business, the data we share with Amazon systems which drive experiences on Amazon, on Fire TV and on Alexa and more.  Some of those are shared systems, but not all of them are, and the effects of a change cannot always be known in advance due to the distance between where the data is stored vs. where it is presented to customers. For example, if a data change (like a new genre) is made in IMDb’s core data store and we discover a week later that this change is causing Android app crashes for customers in Portugal, then getting a new version approved and distributed to those customers is not just not as easy as instantly changing the config of one web site back in 2009.  We are addressing this behind-the-scenes with new technology, simplifications and cleaner APIs and we are improving week by week, but it is still a long journey.  For example, the new IMDb title pages which are currently in beta are based on a new technology platform which eliminates the need for a separate mobile site and has components already being used by our mobile apps, and with a much cleaner API.  We are heading back to a world in which a new genre is one config change (and a few language translations). 

The other issue with new genres is that we already have a very flexible plot keywords system which is always easy to extend.  There are few things that genres can do which are not already covered by plot-keywords; maybe not quite as visible / convenient, but equally not (yet) worth the effort and risk of turning some of them into genres for the reasons explained above. 

Hope this helps. 

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@Col_Needham Thanks Col.

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This information has led me to believe that genre assignments might be organized into a sort of "bit field" data structure, a collection of "yes" switches and "no" switches, at least on some of the platforms, but that the "switch board" of sorts is fixed in size, whereby no more switches can be added. It may be impossible to ensure that all devices will be able to understand an updated specification, since the devices themselves would have be upgraded, and invariably some will be left behind as "unsupported" for not upgrading, which is a thing that customers have been known to complain about.

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1年前

This is my 11th anniversary bump of this idea; the five genres under discussion here were announced as having been approved on July 25, 2010.

I see that Col responded to this problem a few months ago, and apparently IMDb is somewhere on the road to making it possible to implement the new genres after the programmers made it impossible to do so for some reason. But I suspect that we are still some time away from seeing implementation of these genres.

I would like to thank the 37 people who have liked this idea, although for some reason this Sprinklr site doesn't allow me to see their usernames. In any event, though, I appreciate your support.

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@gromit82 

From

https://community-imdb.sprinklr.com/conversations/data-issues-policy-discussions/implementation-of-new-genres/5f4a7a638815453dbaa6da98?commentId=5f4a7b888815453dbadc46b5&replyId=5f4a7df48815453dba4adaf4

IMDb Statistics
https://www.imdb.com/pressroom/stats/

July 25 2021

Title Genres .........13,425,943

  • Drama: ...........2,284,638
  • Comedy:........ 1,691,632
  • Short:.............. 1,090,791
  • Talk Show:........ 998,132
  • Romance:......... 850,251
  • Documentary: 773,483
  • Family:.............. 655,591
  • News:............... 618,588
  • Reality Tv:...... 437,422
  • Music:............ 413,979
  • Animation:... 402,948
  • Crime:............ 358,672
  • Action:........... 328,938
  • Adventure:... 313,948
  • Fantasy:......... 274,871
  • Game Show: 268,131
  • Thriller:.......... 262,113
  • Adult: ............240,943
  • Mystery:....... 224,415
  • Sport: ............203,978
  • Sci Fi:............. 192,761
  • Horror:.......... 163,412
  • History:......... 125,029
  • Biography:.... 87,301
  • Musical:........ 79,309
  • War:............... 48,833
  • Western:...... 35,015
  • Film Noir: ..........819

http://web.archive.org/web/20180915000000*/https://www.imdb.com/pressroom/stats/

.

(edited)

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I'm not sure why the Romance genre didn't make the 2018 list, but it was definitely on IMDb long before then. As shown at http://web.archive.org/web/20180819222145if_/https://www.imdb.com/pressroom/stats/, there were already 428,395 Romance titles in the database as of Aug. 19, 2018. I'm guessing that the Oct. 8, 2018 list cited by ACT_1 just had an inadvertent omission.

http://web.archive.org/web/20010304112154/http://us.imdb.com/Guides/genres indicates that the Romance genre was in place no later than 2001. It predates some other existing genres, including Talk-Show, News, Reality-TV, Music, Game-Show, Sport, and History, Biography.

In fact, I think the eight genres I just mentioned were the most recent ones to be added to IMDb. And they were all in place before the poll to add new genres in 2010, which resulted in Soap Opera, Erotica, Awards-Show, Experimental, and Lifestyle being selected.

(edited)

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@gromit82 

? ? ?

I may have deleted Romance formatting it with the dots

I deleted the above ooooppppsss

(edited)

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@gromit82 

You wrote:

I see that Col responded to this problem a few months ago, and apparently IMDb is somewhere on the road to making it possible to implement the new genres after the programmers made it impossible to do so for some reason. But I suspect that we are still some time away from seeing implementation of these genres.

Yes, your summary is accurate and we are indeed nearer, yet still some time away.  Just to clarify: "impossible" is too strong a word, and it is more like "impractical" given the complexity of making changes to multiple old software systems which are scheduled for retirement vs. how the time could be better spent replacing the old software and, as a free side effect, then just being able to add the genres much more easily in the new software.  It's an age-old dillema and there are times when it is worth fixing the old software, however, this is not one of them. 

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@ACT_1 Actually, "Romance" was indeed omitted from an IMDb statistics list in 2018; see http://web.archive.org/web/20181025134724if_/https://www.imdb.com/pressroom/stats/ (Oct. 25, 2018), which lists the then-existing genres as follows:

Title Genres

  • Drama 1,330,188
  • Comedy 1,145,459
  • Short 770,198
  • Documentary 529,741
  • Talk_show 509,938
  • Family 406,228
  • News 377,795
  • Animation 274,750
  • Reality_tv 258,115
  • Music 250,383
  • Crime 238,295
  • Action 219,170
  • Adventure 184,283
  • Game_show 183,602
  • Thriller 168,697
  • Fantasy 154,471
  • Adult 153,743
  • Mystery 148,355
  • Sci_fi 136,252
  • Sport 119,347
  • Horror 106,104
  • History 78,323
  • Biography 62,817
  • Musical 54,242
  • War 33,423
  • Western 31,274
  • Film_noir 811

This was obviously just an error since the Romance genre existed on IMDb at that time, but it wasn't ACT_1's error.

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? ?

Mon Oct 8 2018

IMDb Statistics
https://www.imdb.com/pressroom/stats/


Title Genres

• Drama........... 1,330,188
• Comedy........ 1,145,459
• Short................ 770,198
• Documentary... 529,741
• Talk_show...... 509,938
• Family............ 406,228
• News.............. 377,795
• Animation....... 274,750
• Reality_tv....... 258,115
• Music............. 250,383
• Crime............. 238,295
• Action............ 219,170
• Adventure..... 184,283
• Game_show.. 183,602
• Thriller........... 168,697
• Fantasy.......... 154,471
• Adult.............. 153,743
• Mystery......... 148,355
• Sci_fi............. 136,252
• Sport............. 119,347
• Horror........... 106,104
• History............ 78,323
• Biography....... 62,817
• Musical.......... 54,242
• War................ 33,423
• Western......... 31,274
• Film_noir............. 811

web.archive.org /20180915

Sun Jul 25 2021

IMDb Statistics
https://www.imdb.com/pressroom/stats/


Title Genres .........13,425,943

Drama: ...........2,284,638
Comedy:........ 1,691,632
Short:.............. 1,090,791
Talk Show:........ 998,132
Romance:......... 850,251
Documentary: 773,483
Family:.............. 655,591
News:............... 618,588
Reality Tv:...... 437,422
Music:............ 413,979
Animation:... 402,948
Crime:............ 358,672
Action:........... 328,938
Adventure:... 313,948
Fantasy:......... 274,871
Game Show: 268,131
Thriller:.......... 262,113
Adult: ............240,943
Mystery:....... 224,415
Sport: ............203,978
Sci Fi:............. 192,761
Horror:.......... 163,412
History:......... 125,029
Biography:.... 87,301
Musical:........ 79,309
War:............... 48,833
Western:...... 35,015
Film Noir: ..........819

Thu Feb  9 2022

IMDb Statistics As of Dec 2021
https://www.imdb.com/pressroom/stats/

Genres: ...... 14,305,353

Drama:  ..........  2,431,574
Comedy: ........  1,791,103
Talk Show: ..... 1,098,007
Short: ...............1,075,829
Romance: .......   885,435 
Documentary:  813,508
News: ...............   774,677
Family:  ............   705,741
Reality TV: ......   474,639
Music: ..............   439,534
Animation: .....   428,417
Crime: ..............   372,583
Action: .............   342,552
Adventure: .....   330,677
Game Show: ... 295,440
Fantasy: ............  287,451
Thriller: .............  270,152
Adult: ................   258,503
Mystery: ..........   234,408
Sport: ................  215,176
Sci Fi: .................  200,987
Horror: ..............  172,071
History: .............  138,304
Biography: .......    91,577
Musical: ............    90,692
War:  ..................    50,138
Western: ...........    35,356
Film Noir: ..........        822

(edited)

130 Messages

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7分前

"Performance" for recorded theatre shows, they are currently in feature film category, most of them. :/

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5分前

We're now up to eleven and a half years that we've been waiting for the new genres.

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Yes, three quarters of a score has seen the persistence of a particular technical difficulty.