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Sunday, October 2nd, 2022 2:28 AM

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IMDb Staff: When adding keywords, the system should auto-convert two hyphens (--) and one hyphen plus a space (- ) to one hyphen (-)

Dear IMDb staff:

I have a suggestion that should cut down on excess and duplicate keywords.

Currently, when we try to add a keyword that has two spaces in a row, the system will automatically convert the two spaces to a single hyphen.

For instance, if we enter "tree  stump" (two spaces) or "tree stump" (one space) the system will automatically convert that to "tree-stump." 

However, if we try to enter "tree--stump" or "tree- stump" or "tree -stump" the system accepts both of those as a new keyword "tree--stump."

This results in a lot of poorly formatted keywords, all of which will eventually need to be corrected. Keywords like this:

older--woman (3 titles)

c--bar (1 title)

reference-to-president-william-f--mckinley (4 titles)

reference-to-charles-g--dawes (1 title)

publilius-syrus--quotation (1 title)

vympel-r-27--'aa-10'-alamo-air-to-air-missle (1 title)

actor--turned-preacher (1 title)

airplane-ferrying--service (2 titles)

almost--true (2 titles)

female--flautist (2 titles)

hitchiking-teenage--girl (2 titles)

helen-adams-keller--quotation (2 titles)

human--pulverized (1 title)

Although these keywords are relatively rare, I do come across them regularly.

I have some questions about this:

1. Can the system be set up to auto-convert two hyphens to one hyphen when contributors try to add a new keyword? And the same with one hyphen plus one space, and one space plus one hyphen?

2. Can the database of existing keywords be searched for all keywords that currently contain two hyphens, and mass-convert the two hyphens to one hyphen?

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2 years ago

@keyword_expert ,

https://www.scribbr.com/language-rules/dashes/

There are two types of dash. The en dash is approximately the length of the letter n, and the em dash the length of the letter m.

  • The shorter en dash (–) is used to mark ranges and with the meaning “to” in phrases like “Dover–Calais crossing.”
  • The longer em dash (—) is used to separate extra information or mark a break in a sentence.

https://grammarist.com/usage/hyphen-en-dash-or-em-dash/

An en dash (–), the second-longest “dash,” is used to show how a range of things in writing are related to one another. An em dash (—), the longest “dash,” is used as a substitute for a comma, colon, semi-colon, or parentheses and emphasizes information. A hyphen (-) is the shortest “dash” and connects two words.

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@dan_dassow​ I'm fully aware of the differences between hyphens, en-dashes, and em-dashes.

Can you please explain why you're raising this? Are you suggesting that contributors are trying to enter en-dashes or em-dashes as part of their keyword entries (rather than spaces as I suggested in my post), and that the system is converting these punctuation marks to double hyphens?

Or are you suggesting that you are opposed to my suggestion, i.e., you believe that the ability to type two hyphens together should remain available to contributors when entering keywords?

If the latter, then your suggestion would not make sense for IMDb keywords. En-dashes and em-dashes are used within sentences as part of grammar. They are not used within words themselves.  (Edit: to be fair, an en-dash might be used within a term, but for IMDb keyword purposes an en-dash is functionally the same as a hyphen. It is common in writing outside of IMDb to use two hyphens to indicate an em-dash -- sometimes set apart by spaces, like I am doing right here in this sentence --  but I don't ever see writing outside of IMDb use two hyphens to indicate an en-dash, and I don't recall ever seeing it on IMDb, either.) And in none of the examples I included in my post would an en-dash or em-dash ever have been grammatically correct to include.

The bottom line is that the double hyphens within keywords are causing problems on IMDb, they are undoubtedly created inadvertently by people accidentally including an extra space within their keywords, and the system should prevent such accidents by never creating keywords with two hyphens side by side. That has resulted in many unnecessary, improperly formatted and/or duplicate keywords over the years that should never have been created in the first place.

(edited)

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@dan_dassow​ p.s. I tested the keyword system by trying to input both en-dashes and em-dashes into new keyword entries. The system converts each of these punctuation marks to single hyphens (not double hyphens). So if you are suggesting that some of the double hyphens within keywords are intended to be en-dashes or em-dashes, those double hyphens would have been entered manually by contributors, not through auto-conversion by the IMDb keyword system. 

If you were suggesting that it would have been legitimate for someone to use double hyphens (rather than a single hyphen) within a keyword, can you provide examples of where this has happened before with keywords? Or if not, any examples of where you believe it might happen in the future? 

I continue to believe that em-dashes simply would never occur within an IMDb keyword, and en-dashes are functionally the same as single hyphens for IMDb keyword purposes, so I can't think of any situation involving keywords where double hyphens would make sense. Double hyphens could grammatically imply an em-dash, but not an en-dash.

(edited)

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@keyword_expert​ ,

I misread your original post. I'm in violent agreement that only hyphens should be used as part of keywords.

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@dan_dassow​ Thank you for clearing that up. I also misread your response at first, and then I made a bunch of edits after the fact as I tried to decipher it.

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2 years ago

I believe I originally created this post as a "problem" first and someone has changed it to an "idea" post. That is fine for now, but after the community weighs in I will likely change it back to a "problem" post, because I do believe this is a problem that needs to be fixed.

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@keyword_expert​ ,

At one time, IMDb Champions could change whether a thread is classified as Question, Problem, Idea or Praise. Now only IMDb staff and Sprinklr staff with Sprinklr admin rights or the original author of a thread can change the type of thread.

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2 years ago

I also agree with this, seems to be an useful way to avoid unnecessary duplication.

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@Pencho15​ Thank you for the vote of support. Don't forget to upvote the "idea" post.

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2 years ago

Here are a few random examples of keywords with two hyphens that I included in my past lists for mass mergers and auto-conversions. If the double hyphens had been blocked from the beginning, none of these mass mergers would have been necessary.

poisoned--to-death (3 titles)

mother--son-relationship (5 titles)

nude--woman-swimming (7 titles) 

reference-to-franklin-delano--roosevelt (7 titles) 

maternal--love (2 titles)

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2 years ago

After quickly getting 5 votes in favor of this post when it was an "idea" post (over the course of 8 days), I have decided to change this to a "problem" post in order to make sure that IMDb staff see it.

What do you think, @Michelle and @Bethanny?  Can the system for adding keywords be tweaked to avoid the creation of new keywords with double hyphens?

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Hi @keyword_expert​ -

I have filed a ticket for the appropriate team to review/consider this request.  As soon as I have an update on the status I will let you know here.

Cheers!

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2 years ago

I noticed that on IMDb keyword pages and searches, two hyphens together within keywords are already displayed as a single space.

For example, the keyword "c--bar" is displayed here as "c bar." 

Why not just go ahead and mass merge and auto-convert all instances of double hyphens within keywords to single hyphens?

This could be done so easily. It is mystifying why the system wasn't configured in this manner years ago.

(edited)

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1 year ago

Hi @keyword_expert -

Following up here with an update on the outstanding issue - we are so sorry it has taken this amount of time to resolve, due to our backlog we can't provide an exact timeframe as to when the keyword hyphen issue at hand will be prioritized, for this reason we are closing this thread. But know that we are still tracking this issue and it will be picked up.   Again, I apologize for any inconvenience this may cause, and we will make sure to revisit it as soon as possible.