The keywords "blockbuster" and "movie-flop"

@ACT_1​ Are you a bot?

@Peter_pbn​ But should box office status even be included in the keywords? Keywords are supposed to be related to the subject matter of the film itself, not the perception towards it.

@hurdy_gurdy_man​ That's not strictly true. There are other keywords that are about the production, not the subject matter, like "written by director" and "triple f rated".

@adrian​ But at least that sort of information has some solid facts behind it. Box office is a foggy situation.

@gary_krause_dsb3tl1xamjcb​ I usually don't delete "blockbuster" as a keyword. I understand your points about what you view as proper use of the "blockbuster" keyword, but wouldn't you agree that other users have severely overused this keyword with much wider criteria for when they think it applies?

blockbuster (1361 titles)

I do often delete "movie-flop" when I see it used as a keyword. "Movie-flop" is also severely overused and is even harder to define.

Any thoughts on whether "movie-flop" should be blocked and mass-deleted?

movie-flop (798 titles) 

I don't have strong opinions about these keywords either way, but if it were up to to me, I would at least block and delete "movie-flop." How does one define what is a "flop?"

I'll agree that flops are a LOT harder to define, as the term is usually used relative to the expectations for the movie, and its budget. A movie that cost $100 million but only took in $20 million at the box office is regarded as a flop, while a movie that cost $1 million and also grossed $20 million is a "sleeper hit". You could come up with a parameter involving budget-to-box office ratio, I suppose, but I doubt you could find a reliable way to accurately determine budgets, so it's likely a hopeless cause. I'll bring up another related issue - titles that have the keyword 'blockbuster' AND the keyword 'cult-favorite' (or a variant); these two things seem contradictory to me, as they suggest something in the cultural mainstream and something out of it. I don't think of Star Wars as a "cult favorite" simply because it has a devoted following.

@scgary66​ 

463 titles currently have the keyword combination "blockbuster" and "cult-film."

Most Popular Movies and TV Shows tagged with keywords "blockbuster", "cult-film"

I agree with you that these two keywords are contradictory (and in most cases mutually exclusive).

@keyword_expert​ And then there's the issue of the numerous variants of the keyword:

cult-film (and cult-tv)

cult-favorite

cult-classic

cult-movie

cult-comedy

cult-horror

cult-following

cult-western

cult-character

cult-short

cult-hit

cult-television

cult-status

cult-musical

cult-cast

cult-episode

american-cult-tv (etc.)

cult-film-reference

cult-movie-cast

cult-tv-series

cult-male-character

cult-female-character

cult-animated-film

And so on...

@scgary66​ Such is the world of keywords.

Most of those are not true duplicates, though, except "cult-film" and "cult-movie," which should be merged. I will make sure those are on my list for a future mass merger. 

@scgary66​ 

I think I am at the point where I am willing to ask IMDb staff to permanently delete and block the "cult" keywords, like the ones you mentioned.  These keywords are over-applied to the point that they have become meaningless. What say you?

@keyword_expert​ And then there's the issue of the numerous variants of the keyword:

cult-film (and cult-tv)

cult-favorite

cult-classic

cult-movie

cult-comedy

cult-horror

cult-following

cult-western

cult-character

cult-short

cult-hit

cult-television

cult-status

cult-musical

cult-cast

cult-episode

american-cult-tv (etc.)

cult-film-reference

cult-movie-cast

cult-tv-series

cult-male-character

cult-female-character

cult-animated-film

And so on...

@scgary66​ p.s. Probably not all of those keywords should be deleted. Some of them, like "cult-following," might actually be plot points within a title.

But keywords like "cult-film" and "cult-tv-series" have definitely become meaningless and serve no good function on IMDb.

The keywords blockbuster and cult-film are in IMDb's own list of "interesting keywords" to explore.

https://www.imdb.com/search/keyword/

Cult-film is also one of the selected keywords that can be searched in the IMDb app (iOS).

@Peter_pbn​ That's a very good point. I was already reconsidering my suggestion of asking staff to intervene, especially after not receiving any positive feedback from @scgary66.

It does seem to be an undeniable truth that certain keywords like "blockbuster," "cult-film," "psychotronic-film," and "grindhouse-film" (and their variants) have become overused to the point of meaninglessness.

Perhaps the absolute worst of these is "psychotronic-film."  That particular keyword was ill-defined from the start, and definitely has no universally accepted definition today.

With all that said, I don't feel strongly about how to fix the problem. This is just another keyword malfunction that will probably persist indefinitely. 

A list of some of the many keywords of this nature that have become problematic in their usage:

psychotronic-film (8936 titles)

psychotronic-series (1228 titles)

psychotronic-short (1013 titles)

psychotronic-short-film (63 titles)

psychotronic-video-game (459 titles)

psychotronic-tv-film (72 titles)

psychotronic-tv (4 titles)

psychotronic-comedy (68 titles)

psychotronic-music-video (49 titles)

european-psychotronic-film (153 titles)

spanish-psychotronic-film (27 titles)

british-psychotronic-film (20 titles)

psychotronic-episode (28 titles)

trash-movie (870 titles)

trash-cinema (3 titles)

trash (821 titles)

euro-trash (859 titles)

blockbuster (960 titles)

cult-director (847 titles)

cult-movie-cast (62 titles)

cult-cast (2 titles)

cult-character (10 titles)

cult-male-character (11 titles)

cult-female-character (9 titles)

cult-favorite (408 titles)

cult-hit (4 titles)

cult-film (5067 titles)

cult-movie (86 titles)

cult-animated-film (2 titles)

cult-short (6 titles)

cult-tv (939 titles)

cult-television (3 titles)

cult-tv-series (29 titles)

american-cult-tv (647 titles)

japanese-cult-tv (64 titles)

cult-episode (1 title)

cult-comedy (83 titles)

cult-horror (54 titles)

cult-western (9 titles)

cult-musical (2 titles)

cult-video-game (361 titles)

based-on-cult-tv-series (77 titles)

based-on-cult-favorite (63 titles)

based-on-cult-film (15 titles)

based-on-cult-scenes (2 titles)

based-on-cult-comedy (1 title)

grindhouse (49 titles)

grindhouse-film (2517 titles)

grindhouse-short (16 titles)

grindhouse-series (8 titles)

grind-house (1 title)

And so on.....

@scgary66​ While we are still on the topic of the overuse of these keywords, I have also noted the tendency of one more contributors to add the word "cult" when what they really mean is "cult-film." This misuse of the "cult" keyword is most readily apparent in this search for the keywords "cult" and "cult-film" combined on the same title (which currently returns 219 titles):

Cult-film, cult (Sorted by Popularity Ascending)  (219 titles)

The contributor(s) who have done this are diluting the keyword "cult," which should be reserved for titles that actually include a cult as a plot point.

@bradley_kent​ 

It does seem that one or more contributors have been making progress at weeding out the usage of the "blockbuster" keyword. That keyword was at 1,361 titles (according to @ACT_1's records) when this thread was started 5 months ago, and is at 960 titles today. 

To whomever is reducing this bloated keyword, nice work!

@bradley_kent​

If "psychotronic" is so "clearly defined," as you put it, it should be pretty easy to provide your perceived definition. 

So, what is your definition of "psychotronic?" 

How about the Oxford definition (which you could have easily looked up, too):

denoting or relating to a genre of movies, typically with a science fiction, horror, or fantasy theme, that were made on a low budget or poorly received by critics.

@bradley_kent​

Thank you. I was familiar with that dictionary definition, but I didn't want to influence your response by pointing it out first.

And since you pointed out Michael Weldon (who coined the phrase "Psychotronic TV" in the first place), I note that Weldon himself never gave a consistent definition.

In case you haven't seen this before, this official source quotes Weldon's book, criticizes the dictionary definition that you have cited as too narrow, admits there really is no true definition, and struggles to arrive at a definition, while acknowledging that it may be like U.S. Supreme Court Justice Potter Stewart's nondefinition of "obscenity": "I know it when I see it."

Toward a Definition of Psychotronic Film

https://psychotronicreview.com/2018/06/04/psychotronic-definition/

At any rate, I wasn't suggesting that the keyword "psychotronic" should be deleted or blocked. But I do believe that the keyword is completely dysfunctional at this point as used on IMDb. 

@bradley_kent​ 

And just to clarify, that Psychotronic Review blog post that I cited quoted from Weldon's book The Psychotronic Encyclopedia of Film, but not his earlier book The Psychotronic Video Guide.

As pointed out in one of the comments on that blog post, Weldon's definition in his earlier book was as follows:

"Psychotronic . . . means horror, science fiction, fantasy, and exploitation movies.” 

That original definition had no mention of budget or popularity, but instead was simply limited to specific genres.

There are currently 2,373 titles on IMDb that have the keyword "psychotronic" but not the keywords "exploitation-film" or "exploitation" and not any of the genres listed in that above-quoted definition:

Not Fantasy, Not Horror, Not Sci-Fi, psychotronic-film, Not exploitation, Not exploitation-film (Sorted by Popularity Ascending)

Looks like someone needs to do a thorough auditing of the "psychotronic" titles to add needed genres and subgenres.  Why not take on that project?

t any rate, I'm glad that you agree that "psychotronic" keywords should not be blocked (although some probably need correcting).

Even among people really "into" psychotronic films, there is probably a lot of disagreement about a definition.  "Hard Ticket to Hawaii," anyone?

@bradley_kent​ To be honest I don't care enough about the "psychotronic" keyword to do any "auditing" of it, and I also predict that even trying to audit it would be like sticking one's finger in the dike, only for the flood to burst out all over again in other places.

"psychotronic" may be the most overused keyword on IMDb; it's hard to think of a better example. I'm sure that unfortunate trend will continue regardless of any "auditing."

And yes, there is definitely no universal definition of "psychotronic," even among its aficionados. That's part of the problem with even trying to "audit" the keyword.