bradley_kent's profile

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Sat, Mar 19, 2022 1:28 AM

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Please delete and then ban the "biographical-documentary" keyword for all titles...

that already have Biography and Documentary as genres.

913 Messages

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Il y a 3 m

that already have History and Documentary as genres.

Note: This comment was created from a merged conversation originally titled Please delete and then ban the "history-documentary" keyword for all titles...

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IMDb Staff:

I am not sure why Mr. Kent is not disclosing the full context here, since it has been pointed out to him many times over the past couple weeks, but it must be noted that the keyword "history-documentary" is on the new list of "accepted" subgenre keywords.

Therefore, I doubt staff will want to delete this keyword from any title to which it is relevant without further discussion about the subgenre keywords in general.

(edited)

Champion

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I agree with Bradley's request but would like to amplify it to state that "history-documentary" also should be removed from the list of accepted subgenre keywords at https://help.imdb.com/article/contribution/titles/keywords/GXQ22G5Y72TH8MJ5#special.

Elsewhere on the same page, it says:

Unacceptable keywords

... Repeating genres - For example, we have the genres Romance and Drama so you can submit these as genres to the title rather than submitting the keyword romantic-drama.

By the same token, we have the genres History and Documentary so they ought to be submitted as genres to a title rather than encouraging the use of a keyword history-documentary.

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Il y a 3 m

IMDb Staff:

I am not sure why Mr. Kent is not disclosing the full context here, since it has been pointed out to him many times over the past couple weeks, but it must be noted that the keyword "biographical-documentary" is on the new list of "accepted" subgenre keywords.

Therefore, I doubt staff will want to delete this keyword from any title to which it is relevant without further discussion about the subgenre keywords in general.

(edited)

Champion

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Il y a 3 m

I agree with Bradley's request but would like to amplify it to state that "biographical-documentary" also should be removed from the list of accepted subgenre keywords at https://help.imdb.com/article/contribution/titles/keywords/GXQ22G5Y72TH8MJ5#special.

Elsewhere on the same page, it says:

Unacceptable keywords

... Repeating genres - For example, we have the genres Romance and Drama so you can submit these as genres to the title rather than submitting the keyword romantic-drama.

By the same token, we have the genres Biography and Documentary so they ought to be submitted as genres to a title rather than encouraging the use of a keyword biographical-documentary.

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@gromit82​ Very helpful comment. This is much better than simply asking for deletion of a keyword without any context or explanation. You make an excellent case for how these keywords are inconsistent with the guidelines themselves. 

I recommend adding a similar comment to this thread regarding sugenre keywords in general.

(edited)

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18.5K Points

I made sure that all the titles that had the "biographical-documentary" keyword also had Biography and Documentary as keywords.  But IMDb would not accept the deletion of this keyword on all those titles, apparently since it is on the subgenre list.

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@gromit82​ Although it's correct that "biographical-documentary" violates the guidelines, there are probably hundreds of similar multiple-genre keywords that would similarly violate the same guideline. 

With 28 current genres, there are 378 potential possibilities of two-genre combinations. Add to that potential synonyms within keywords (e.g., "comedic" for "comedy," "animated" for "animation" etc.), plus keywords that add suffixes like "-film," "-movie," and "-tv," and we are talking about thousands of keywords. This is very likely a huge can of worms.

Here are just a few such two-genre combinations that have already been used as keywords:

sci-fi-horror (6 titles)

war-comedy (1 title)

war-history (18 titles)

horror-comedy (4 titles)

news-talk-show (3 titles)

sports-talk-show (11 titles)

comedy-talk-show (32 titles)

family-comedy (739 titles)

action-adventure (71 titles)

adventurous-action (41 titles)

science-fiction-adventure (1 title)

sci-fi-comedy (8 titles)

sci-fi-horror (6 titles)

sci-fi-drama (6 titles)

sci-fi-history (6 titles)

sci-fi-documentary (1 title)

sci-fi-romance (1 title)

war-romance (10 titles)

western-comedy (19 titles)

sports-news (36 titles)

animated-horror (63 titles)

animated-science-fiction (21 titles)

comedy-game-show (5 titles)

sci-fi-action-movie (3 titles)

Those were just a few that I was able to quickly find. That doesn't include all the numerous "-short" keywords, of which there are many.

And finally, there are three-genre keywords (and there are many of those existing keywords as well).

(edited)

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And... all of these need to be audited.  A title that has a keyword combining genres does not necessarily mean that that title qualifies for those genres AS genres.  And, they may already have one or more of those genres.  

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@bradley_kent​ 

And... all of these need to be audited.

Knock yourself out. I am not interested in deleting multiple-genre keywords, let alone auditing them.

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I haven't "knocked myself out" (although it did take a lot of work AND time), but the following have all been audited and are now ready to be "purged" and "blocked" from further addition!

sci-fi-horror (6 titles)

war-comedy (1 title)

war-history (18 titles)

horror-comedy (4 titles)

news-talk-show (3 titles)

sports-talk-show (11 titles)

comedy-talk-show (32 titles)

family-comedy (739 titles)

action-adventure (71 titles)

adventurous-action (41 titles)

science-fiction-adventure (1 title)

sci-fi-comedy (8 titles)

sci-fi-horror (6 titles)

sci-fi-drama (6 titles)

sci-fi-history (6 titles)

sci-fi-documentary (1 title)

sci-fi-romance (1 title)

war-romance (10 titles)

western-comedy (19 titles)

sports-news (36 titles)

animated-horror (63 titles)

animated-science-fiction (21 titles)

comedy-game-show (5 titles)

sci-fi-action-movie (3 titles)

The additions, deletions and corrections numbered in the hundreds, most of which would not have been possible without an audit!

(edited)

913 Messages

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18.5K Points

Il y a 3 m

So, let's being by removing those supposed subgenres that just combine one genre with another (which is absolutely against IMDb guidelines, by the way):

biographical-documentary

crime-documentary

history-documentary

(military and) war-documentary

music-documentary

sports-documentary

historical-drama

tragedy-drama

sports-news

comedy-talk-show

Did I miss any?

There are so many other inaccurate "subgenres" on this list that it is absolutely mind-boggling.  More to come...

P.S. The only exception I can think of (at this tlme) for a keyword that can correctly combine two genres is "war-crime," whch is certainly happening right now with Putin's invasion of Ukraine.

Note: This comment was created from a merged conversation originally titled The subgenre mess

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Part 2:  Almost all (but not all) of the subgenres that have a genre as a suffix need to be deleted from this list (AFTER AN AUDIT, OF COURSE, BECAUSE THERE ARE SOME EXCEPTIONS).  This has been touched upon in another thread, but supposed subgenres like: baseball-sport, sitcom-comedy (which should probably be "situation-comedy"), supernatural-fantasy, rock-music (which, years ago, was merged into the keyword "rock-'n-roll"), cop-drama (wasn't cop banned in favor of police or policeman, except for "cop-killer"), zombie-horror, fairy-tale-fantasy, gangster-crime, heist-crime, travel-documentary, soap-opera-drama, practically all those listed with a -sci-fi or -sport suffix, and on, and on, and on...

These are easily searchable by entering the keyword and then the genre, so this is duplicated information that is already in the database.  

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Part 3: A few of the subgenres call for a very subjective, personal judgment: cringe-comedy, crude-humor-comedy, quirky-comedy, cozy-mystery, tearjerker-romance, steamy-romance, feel-good-romance, etc., on which there is probably little agreement and no consensus.

I still question any keyword or subgenre that has psychological- or emotional- or observational- as a prefix to such genres as Drama or Horror or Thriller, etc.  Aren't they all, or the vast majority of titles, psychological, emotional and/or observational?  

The main reason for communication problems is the assumption of understanding.  One (and I am including myself) should assume that, just because you have a distinctive definition of something, someone else might think something that is very different.

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Part 4:  AND there are legitimate subgenres that are missing, like slapstick-comedy AND neo-noir.

A few years ago, I also did an extensive audit to two subgenre keywords that, as a result, were totally accurate at that time: screwball-comedy and neo-screwball-comedy.  (I took pride in that!) They are also  missing (and probably no longer accurate).

And, I am sure there are others.

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18.5K Points

Il y a 3 m

This "bad" keyword combines two genres, and deletions are not being accepted by IMDb.

Note: This comment was created from a merged conversation originally titled Please delete and then ban the "comedy-talk-show" keyword for all titles...

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Il y a 3 m

This is a very curious situation where certain animated Disney features and big-budget Hollywood movies are "protected" from having this keyword (which combines two genres) deleted.  It can, curiously, be deleted for lesser-known titles and all TV episodes, but not for the "protected biggies."

Note: This comment was created from a merged conversation originally titled Please delete and then ban the "family-comedy" keyword for all titles...

Employee

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274.2K Points

Il y a 3 m

Hi bradley_kent, keyword_expert, & gromit82 -

Thanks for posting your feedback regarding the current list of accepted sub-genre keywords.  I have passed along these comments to the appropriate team who will re-review our policies and the current list.  As soon as I have an update I will relay the information and any expected changes here.

Cheers!

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@Michelle​ I would like to voice my support for allowing keywords for subgenres (e.g. "zombie-horror") and multi-genre combinations (e.g. "comedy-horror"), while continuing to ban main, single-genre keywords (e.g."horror-movie"). I explain more of my thoughts on this subject in this other thread.

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Il y a 3 m

Flight with Firebird (2022)

It incorrectly involves two genres that already exist for this title.

After it is removed, it can be "blocked/purged" from further submission and addition.

Note: This comment was created from a merged conversation originally titled Please remove the "war-romance" keyword from this title:

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Il y a 3 m

Bump.  How about some staff action on this?

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@bradley_kent​ I don't think you should expect an answer anytime soon on your policy questions regarding multiple-genre-combination keywords, especially the particular keywords that are now expressly recognized as valid in the guidelines.

This is a policy matter that will take some time to resolve, and @Michelle already wrote this in the other thread, so you know they are working on it:

these keywords have been created to drive new search experiences to aid title discovery for users, please watch this space.  We are working on a draft to provide further guidance in the submission guides for how these subgenres will be defined.

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Il y a 3 m

In the meantime, I have done an audit of all titles with the erroneous (in my opinion) "biographical-documentary" keyword so all have Biography and Documentary as genres, but this changes every day.  A decision needs to be made, or are keywords just going to repeat and combine genres that are already in the database as genres?

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Il y a 3 m

and blocked from further addition.  It STILL remains on one title:

Flight with Firebird (2022)

Note: This comment was created from a merged conversation originally titled Still waiting for "war-romance" keyword (which just combines two genres) to be deleted...

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18.5K Points

Il y a 2 m

are standalone genres or just combine two or more genres in an erroneous  keyword.  This is your own guideline and policy, but it is NOT being followed.  Genres SHOULD NOT be keywords.

An example:

The erroneous keyword "family-comedy" has 728 titles.  An advanced search of the Comedy AND Family genres reveals 272,958 titles!  This erroneous keyword is absolutely unnecessary.

An even more bizarre example:

The erroneous keyword "war-romance" has ONLY ONE title.  Yet, an advanced search of the War and Romance genres reveals 9,600 titles!  This erroneous keyword is absolutely unnecessary.

This problem extends to many other examples, but let's begin with just these two.  Please, delete these keywords and block their further incorrect submission.

P.S. I can give you other examples, if you wish.

Note: This comment was created from a merged conversation originally titled STAFF: Please, please delete and block the keywords that...