How to order cast when neither beginning or end credits are compressive

Hi Adrian -

We do cover this scenario on the following Credit Order guide: https://help.imdb.com/article/contribution/filmography-credits/credit-order/G8QZ9QSY5EVKAPNF?ref_=helpsrall#

In  cases where the cast list is split between the opening credits and end credits; the two portions should be treated as one long cast list that happens to be interrupted by the actual movie.

Cheers!

I'm reposting this because the original thread is marked as answered and answered threads don't seem to be monitored by the staff. I do no believe the answer provide really addresses my concerns. There are certain movies from the 70s and early 80s where neither the opening or closing credits are complete. I do not believe these are "split cast" cases. In my mind, a split cast is like a typical American TV show episode which shows the main cast and guest cast in the opening credits and the supporting cast in the closing credits. In this case, considering them as one long cast list makes since and there is no duplication. The movies I'm talking about do not do this and there is lots of duplication between opening and closing credits but neither contains the entire cast. The problem with treating this as a "split cast" and treating it is one long cast list is that the ordering gets really messy following the other IMDb rule that you skip order numbers when cast members are duplicate. If there is a large enough gap in cast numbers, this causes display issues where the casts will be separated. I'm hoping that giving an example will make this problem clear. (Lots of text to follow!)

Here are the opening credit cast lists for the movie Cleopatra Jones:

Tamara Dobson

Bernie Casey

Brenda Sykes

Antonio Fargas

Bill McKinney

Dan Frazer

Stafford Morgan

Mike Warren

Albert Popwell

Caro Kenyatta

Esther Rolle

Shelly Winters as "Mommy"

Here are the closing credits:

Tamara Dobson              Cleopatra Jones

Bernie Casey                   Reuben

Brenda Sykes                   Tiffany 

Antonio Fargas               Doodlebug 

Dan Frazer                      Crawford

Bill McKinney                  Purdy

Stafford Morgan             Sgt. Kert

Mike Warren                  Andy

Albert Popwell               Matthew

Caro Kenyatta                Melvin

Esther Rolle                    Mrs. Johnson

Keith Hamilton               Maxwell Woodman

Jay Montgomery             Jimmy Beeker

Arnold Dover                  Art

Angela Gibbs                  Annie 

John Alderman                Bruce

Eugene Jackson               Henry 

Lee Weaver                      Friend

George Reynolds             Fireplug 

Kanes J. Crawford            1st Boy on Skates

Edward Crawford             2nd Boy on Skates   

Don Cornelius                  Don Cornelius (listed as Self)

Frankie Crocker                Frankie Crawford (listed as Self)

As you can see, the end credits are pretty much the same as the beginning credits though Dan Frazier and Bill McKinney swap order and the notable absence of Shelley Winters. (My theory is that she was the only one in the opening credits that was credited with a character name so they didn't credit her again in the end credits to show the character name.)

If we treat this as one long cast, removing the duplicates and skipping those order numbers, we get:

Tamara Dobson              Cleopatra Jones                           1

Bernie Casey                   Reuben                                        2

Brenda Sykes                   Tiffany                                         3

Antonio Fargas               Doodlebug                                   4

Bill McKinney                  Purdy                                           5 

Dan Frazer                      Crawford                                      6

Stafford Morgan             Sgt. Kert                                       7 

Mike Warren                  Andy                                             8

Albert Popwell               Matthew                                       9

Caro Kenyatta                Melvin                                          10

Esther Rolle                    Mrs. Johnson                               11

Shelley Winters              Mommy                                       12

Keith Hamilton               Maxwell Woodman                      23 

Jay Montgomery             Jimmy Beeker                              24     

Arnold Dover                  Art                                                25

Angela Gibbs                  Annie                                           26

John Alderman                Bruce                                           27

Eugene Jackson               Henry                                          28

Lee Weaver                      Friend                                         29 

George Reynolds             Fireplug                                      30

Kanes J. Crawford            1st Boy on Skates                       31

Edward Crawford             2nd Boy on Skates                     32

Don Cornelius                  Don Cornelius                            33

Frankie Crocker                Frankie Crawford                        34

I can't believe this is what IMDb wants and it will cause all the cast members after Shelley Winters to appear in "Rest of cast listed alphabetically:" which is wrong. They are listed in credit order but there is just a large skip in ordering numbers.

Note:    The current cast list seems to be per the end credits with Shelley Winters listed after all other cast member. There are also 5-6 cast members who are not credited with order numbers as well.

Hi Adrian -

Apologies for the delay and confusion.

I better understand the cast order issue you are reporting,  as a general rule

we will apply the cast order according to the most comprehensive cast list (the one listing the most actors); and in most cases, such as this for Cleopatra Jones, this will be the list appearing in the end credits.

With that being said, we don't have an exact policy in place for these unique situations where a name may be credited in order within the opening credits list but is missing from the end credits list, in some instances these names may be added at the end of the list for the end credits; eg. If "Shelly Winters" is credited in the opening credits, but not the more comprehensive closing credits, she would then be listed at the end of the closing credits order following "Frankie Crocker".

As this credit order issue is not clearly defined, I have alerted our editorial team to review the credit order policy, once we have defined the listing rules we can then update the guides accordingly.

Thanks again for your patience!