Error with adding subgenre keyword "kids-family"

@Peter_pbn​ Interesting. There seems to be a war going on over the recent change to subgenre keywords

It seems to me that many of the problems going on here could be fixed if the subgenres were made totally separate from the plot-related keywords instead of the current system which is trying to lump them together in the same location.

@Peter_pbn​ 

Thanks for catching that. I had no idea until now.  I am not sure when exactly I caught that keyword, but staff blocked it (in response to my list) on June 21, 2022, and then you noticed on July 15, 2022, that the keyword had appeared on the official list of "approved" subgenre keywords. 

@timothy_gray_el34lojg1aih1​ 

It seems to me that many of the problems going on here could be fixed if the subgenres were made totally separate from the plot-related keywords instead of the current system which is trying to lump them together in the same location.

You are not the first to suggest this, although I happen to disagree.

@keyword_expert​

Subgenres can be "styles." Subgenres usually involve plots, in a broad sense. Subgenres are usually "notable," because they describe the entire title. And subgenres can be a great way for visitors to search and discover titles. 

I kind of see your point, but couldn't the same thing be said about genres proper, not just subgenres? Think of how much less convenient it would be if genres were removed from their current location and placed among the other keywords. It's much easier to be able to see the genres separate, especially when it's a popular title with 500 or so keywords attached to it.

I wouldn't recommend banning style- or genre-related keywords wholesale, for one particular reason: IMDb doesn't always do a perfect job of making all of the existing genres available to be added. Avant-garde/experimental, for example, is a genre that should have been added a long time ago, but IMDb staff refuses to get this done, so it's nice that users can step in and add it as a keyword to compensate. It's also useful to add stylistic things subgenres like "neo-noir" into the keywords for the same reason.

Style/genre keywords are necessary as a fail-safe, but ultimately, I still think it would be easier to use if they were kept to the side where users wouldn't have to sift through a lot of other keywords to see them. Heck, they could even be shown on the same page as the rest of the keywords, just as long as they were placed together instead of scattered throughout.

@timothy_gray_el34lojg1aih1​ 

Style/genre keywords are necessary as a fail-safe, but ultimately, I still think it would be easier to use if they were kept to the side where users wouldn't have to sift through a lot of other keywords to see them. Heck, they could even be shown on the same page as the rest of the keywords, just as long as they were placed together instead of scattered throughout.

IMDb has already implemented a change almost exactly like you describe, but only when IMDb keyword pages are viewed using the IMDb app on a smartphone, and only for the official list of suggested subgenre keywords. Eventually this change will also be rolled out for viewing in all platforms, including on computers.

This is why whenever users add a subgenre keyword, we are asked to categorize it as a subgenre keyword. Then IMDb will display all subgenre keywords at the top of each keyword page in a special subgenre section.

If you haven't already done so, download the IMDb app on your phone and view a keyword page for a title that already contains official subgenre keywords, and you will see what this looks like.

@keyword_expert​ It all makes sense now. I'll be glad when this change is rolled out for web users, because I don't use mobile very much.

@Michelle​ 

I think Peter already figured out exactly what happened. But regardless of how it happened, is "kids-family" really an appropriate subgenre keyword? Isn't it redundant?

After all, here is IMDb's official definition of the Family genre:

I guess there is an argument to be made that everything in the Family genre is targeted either to (1) kids or (2) kids plus the rest of their families, in which case there might be keywords "kids-family" and "family-family." But again, all of this seems highly redundant.

The official definition of "kids-family" refers to kids "7 and under." Still seems largely redundant given that the Family genre means "for a younger audience."

@keyword_expert​ I wonder if the initial motive for making the "kids-family" subgenre is an attempt to separate the stuff that everybody likes (Lion King, Toy Story, etc.) from stuff that little kids love but most adults find insufferable (Barney and Friends, Paw Patrol, etc.). But if that's the case, the description ruins it by setting the age limit too high and listing The Many Adventures of Winnie the Pooh as an example.

I agree that the subgenre is totally redundant as currently defined. Virtually all "family" films can be appreciated by children as old as 6-7 years. It might be helpful to make a distinction for stuff that's specifically aimed at toddlers, but as it stands I think the description and listed examples are too broad for that to be useful.

I've created a separate thread to talk about these issues, since they weren't getting much of a response here.

https://community-imdb.sprinklr.com/conversations/data-issues-policy-discussions/miscellaneous-errors-on-keyword-help-page-subgenres/64149e4ff24ba958c581f576

Well, our dear Bradley Kent often complaints about some keywords being too subjective.

@jeorj_euler​ And he complains even more loudly about "genre-infused" keywords. But he's not the only one -- on these types of complaints he and I usually agree. 

“kids-family” is a terrible subgenre ... just a repetition of the Family genre, which is intended to be limited to titles deemed "acceptable” viewing for the “entire” family, including (apparently) the youngest.

And, yes, this is extremely subjective.  I am constantly shocked at some of the titles that my friends with young children allow their children to watch. (Anatomy of a Murder? Vertigo? The Grearest Story Ever Told?)

Also, wasn’t “kid” rejected long ago EVEN as a keyword, in favor of child.  That was to avoid confusion with baby goats, wasn’t it?

@bradley_kent​ 

Also, wasn’t “kid” rejected long ago EVEN as a keyword, in favor of child.  That was to avoid confusion with baby goats, wasn’t it?

Pretty much, except that happened less than 13 months ago, which was arguably not "long ago."

At age 82, thirteen months is still “a long time ago."

@bradley_kent​ Understood, but I suppose that would also be a "subjective" viewpoint (to bring the conversation full circle).

@bradley_kent​ Melodrama is one of the suggestions I included in a post I created called "Suggested additions to subgenre keywords". I figured maybe if I put all of them in one place maybe it might get some attention from the editors. If you have any other suggestions (I saw you mention "screwball-comedy" in another comment somewhere), perhaps you could leave a comment on that page.