jay_spirit's profile

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Thu, Sep 29, 2022 2:41 PM

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Eight keywords I added to a title were accepted and then deleted by a contributor

220928-112124-762000

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2 months ago

Husband cheats on wife was deleted and replaced with husband cheats on his wife. Fair enough.

Killing a pregnant woman and husband kills wife were replaced with murdering a pregnant woman and husband murders his wife.

Husband kills wife and husband kills his wife have both been removed completely from the database. Killing a pregnant woman has been removed from all but one title.

Killing and murder are not synonymous.

(edited)

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2 months ago

jay_spirit 😀

this is easier to read if smaller ??

(Click on it to change size)

.

I can delete this later...

.

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@ACT_1​ 

Hi, ACT1. I don't see the difference. Are you looking at this on your laptop? I'm looking at it on my phone. On my phone, there's no apparent difference between my pictures and yours.

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@jay_spirit​ 😀

Take a look on a computer screen - that is larger than a cell phone screen

that may compress graphics??

.

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My laptop is not working, but I will when I get a chance. Thanks!

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@jay_spirit​ 😀

No hurry, Others here post giant screen grab(?) - must be on phones also ??

I am using a desktop computer with a 24" screen

where your graphic is 9 1/2" ( 24 cm) wide and mine is 5" (13 cm)

.

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@jay_spirit​ I can corroborate that the first image does appear much larger on a laptop screen. But it is still readable.

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@ACT_1​ 

I am using a desktop computer with a 24" screen

where your graphic is 9 1/2" ( 24 cm) wide and mine is 5" (13 cm)

I thought you are a computer?!?!

(edited)

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2 months ago

I second this post. Murdering someone and killing someone are not the same thing.

The contributor who has been doing these pointless and counterproductive keyword edits is wasting everybody's time, especially his own. But more importantly, these edits are likely resulting in factual inaccuracies, especially in situations where "kill" words are changed to "murder" words, where no murder was involved.

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2 months ago

BTW, although there are definite, distinct differences between "killing" and "murder," I have seen one contributor come up with his own interpretations that are simply not correct:

Again, it seems that "killer"should usually be changed to "murderer" unless the "killer" is JUST killing animals and not humans.  Ending the life of a human being is murder, while ending the life of an animal is killing.  (There are, of course, some keyword exceptions i.e. "cop-killer").

I strongly suspect this incorrect interpretation of what "killing" and "murder" mean is the source of the problem here.

(edited)

Bethanny

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2 months ago

Hi jay_spirit-

 

I have reinstated the keywords. @keyword_expert I also think this is related to the issue you mentioned. But in this case I have to agree the keywords were correct and should have noy been deleted.

 

Cheers!

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@Bethanny​ Thank you!

In case that contributor is reading this thread and still doesn't get it, here are some of the many potential differences between killing a person and murdering a person:

  • If you accidentally kill someone, you have killed them without murdering them.
  • If you kill someone in self-defense, you have killed them without murdering them.
  • If a soldier kills an opposing soldier as part of a war, this is (usually) killing without being murder.
  • If an executioner kills someone as an approved punishment for a crime, this is (usually) killing without being murder.
  • If a homicidal maniac forces you to kill someone to save other people's lives, this is (usually) killing without being murder.

Killing and murder do not always overlap. And even where they do, it is okay to add both "kill" and "murder" keywords to the same title.

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I'd like to add that murder is a legal term, and also would not really apply to a caveman killing a caveman, an alien killing a human, or a human killing a human in a world without laws.

There's also a thin line between murder and manslaughter.

Even if we had to choose between blank kills blank keywords or blank murders blank keywords the sane choice would be clear.

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@jay_spirit​ More great points.

Until it came up on this board, I had never even heard of someone believing that the word "kill" only applies to animals and not humans.

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Since I have been called "incorrect," I must respond.  My suggestion that murder applies to humans and killing applies only to animals and plants is NOT my own interpretation, but an observation based on an analysis of HOW the words have been historically applied on IMDb over the years by many contributors (not just me).   Look at the numbers regarding the keywords/titles for these keywords, and you may see where I was coming from.  Of course, murder and killing are different and not mutially exclusive, but IMDb contributors have been making the nonexclusive distinction to which I was referring.

My own opinion:  murder and killing can both apply to humans (depending on the circumstances), but killing applies only to animals and plants -- although some pet and plant lovers would probably disagree.

Regardless of specific definitions, the problem is that one cannot assume ALL contributors have been making these distinctions since the beginnings of IMDb.  The "assumption of understanding" -- that everyone agrees with your, or my, definitions-- only leads to miscommunication.

Also, IMDb's observable preference for nouns (murder) over verbs (kill) may enter into this discussion.  To some, they are synonymous, but not to me.

And, then, there's not only "manslaughter," but "homicide"!  Back to the spoken dialogue or narration and the printed text on screen in each specific title for what may be truly correct.

I would gladly post reasons for every one of my additions, deletions or corrections.

And one more point: How one chooses to spend his or her times is nobody else's business.  What's good for the goose is NOT necessarily good for the gander.

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@bradley_kent​ 

I'm not looking forward to seeing killing-in-self-defense changed to murder-in-self-defense.

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They shouldn't be blocked or merged, but may sometimes need addition or deletion.  And, yes, a specific title may need both murder and killing as keywords, depending, of course, on the specific content of that specific title. 

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@bradley_kent​ 

There is no such thing as murder in self defense.

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I agree.

Been thinking a lot about Ukraine.  If it is a war crime, would that not make it murder instead of killing by the Russians?  Most of the Ukrainians seem to be killing-in-self-defense and in defense of their country.

Politically, and in war, what is killing to one side may be murder to  the other.

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@bradley_kent​ 

This conversation is murder.

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You're killing me.

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@bradley_kent​ 

One can dream.

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But...

My ghost will return to haunt you, and turn your dream into a nightmare.

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@bradley_kent​ 

You're doing just great.

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And many happy returns.

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@bradley_kent​ 

Let's hope not.

This thread is about the false deletion of my submissions.

The staff has confirmed that the submissions were indeed falsely deleted.

Let's hope there's no need to return to this subject.

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@bradley_kent​ 

Also, IMDb's observable preference for nouns (murder) over verbs (kill) may enter into this discussion. 

I don't think so. "Kills" is to "murders" as "kill" is to "murder." Both of these words can be easily adjusted to serve as either nouns or verbs.

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Yes, but...  I was referring to the definitions of "murder" and "kill" offered above by @jay_spirit

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@bradley_kent​ Both those definitions were for the word "murder" -- one definition as a noun, the other as a verb. 

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This is a good example of a title where a husband kills his wife where it is not murder:

The Devil's Backbone (1970)

In this title, a woman is raped and skinned alive. Her husband has to kill her out of mercy. This title deserves the keywords "mercy-killing" and "husband-kills-his-wife," but not "husband-murders-his-wife."

I wonder how many inaccuracies have resulted from the mass manual conversions of the broader "-kills-" keywords into the more narrow "-murders-" keywords? We will probably never know. 

(edited)

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2 months ago

Somebody has been deleting the keyword "serial-killer" from titles that also have the keyword "serial-murder."

I hope whomever is deleting these relevant keywords will stop. As I have previously explained, it is possible to have a murderer in a title without a murder, and vice versa.