Duplicate Keywords - List #10 (Proposal for Permanent Merging and Auto-Conversion) (misc., "death," & "slaps" keywords)

@ACT_1 

Regarding the "death-by-" keywords, we definitely have competing considerations here. Probably everyone would agree that these keywords should be merged. The question is which direction. 

As you point out, to merge in the direction of "death-by-" would allow for easy alphabetical sorting. There are currently 119 keywords that begin with "death-by-" listed on the master list (although many of these are duplicates and/or keywords with only one or two titles). Alphabetical sorting is good for that master list and would  also work on the title pages themselves (when the keywords are sorted alphabetically).

Another consideration is the "murder-by-" keywords. Sticking with "death-by-" would allow these keywords to be consistent with the "murder-by-" keywords.

On the other hand, the "death-by" keywords are awkward-sounding, and in most cases not grammatically correct. For example, in everyday speech we don't say "the victim suffered death by shooting." We say "the victim was shot to death." (In that sense, some of the "death-by" keywords remind me of the stupid "Did He Died?" meme that was all the rage in the early days of YouTube.)

Also, for some of these keywords, the community appears to have already spoken up resoundingly in favor of the "-to-death" keywords. For example, "shot-to-death" has nine times as many titles as "death-by-shooting." (Although, to be fair, there is also the keyword "death-by-gunshot," which I did not include in this list because a "shot" or "shooting" may in rare cases involve a shot from something other than a gun, so "gunshot," "shot," and "shooting" are not necessarily the same thing. I suppose the grammatically correct equivalent of "death-by-gunshot" would be "shot-to-death-with-a-gun.")

The numbers are similarly lopsided in favor of "stabbed-to-death": it has fifteen times as many titles as all other stabbing/death keywords combined.

With those considerations in mind, I favor the "-to-death" keywords over the "death-by-" keywords. There is no right or wrong answer here, but that was the thought process I went through in compiling the list. The "-to-death" keywords sound better and are more popular. That's enough for me.

Whatever is done with the "death" keywords, there should be a consistent approach as much as possible. 

One final point: prioritizing the need for alphabetical sorting above all other considerations reminds me of this hilarious summary by @jay_spirit of the approach of Jon Reeves:

Jon Reeves seemed to think that the most important word in a phrase (such as knife in eats-with-knife) had to appear at the beginning (e.g. knife-eaten-with) so that users could find all the related terms in alphabetical order.

@keyword_expert 

One note here. You may be correct that in a sentence, it would he "He was shot to death". But, as short hand for what happened outside of a sentence and maybe on medical forms it would be "death by shooting".

@keyword_expert 

add links here to

Duplicate Keywords - List #1
Duplicate Keywords - List #2
Duplicate Keywords - List #3
Duplicate Keywords - List #4
Duplicate Keywords - List #5
Duplicate Keywords - List #6
Duplicate Keywords - List #7
Duplicate Keywords - List #8
Duplicate Keywords - List #9

Duplicate Keywords - List #11 ??

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Bump.

@Michelle 

I posted this keyword list nine weeks ago, and have been patiently waiting for action before I post a new list.  Is this just a delay, or has IMDb staff decided to no longer act on my keyword merger lists?

I am not sure what I was thinking when I wrote this in this thread:

Although, to be fair, there is also the keyword "death-by-gunshot," which I did not include in this list because a "shot" or "shooting" may in rare cases involve a shot from something other than a gun, so "gunshot," "shot," and "shooting" are not necessarily the same thing.

Upon revisiting this topic, I see no problem with merging "death-by-gunshot" into "shot-to-death." Even if "shot" is broader than "gunshot," it would still be okay to merge "gunshot" into "shot" without causing any improperly assigned keywords. I plan to propose exactly that merger in a future list.

@keyword_expert​ Hi!

I auto-converted all, let us know which have to merged so we can work on those as soon as we can :)

Thanks!

@Bethanny​ 

Okay, here is the list of keywords I found that should be re-merged:

based-on-actual-events  -->   based-on-real-story  -->  based-on-real-events --> based-on-true-story 

death-by-hanging  --> hanged-to-death 

death-by-poisoning  -->  poisoned-to-death 

stabbing-death  -->   stabbed-to-death 

father-slaps-son  --> father-slaps-his-son 

independent-movie  -->   independent-film

talking-to-a-camera  -->  talking-to-the-camera 

@keyword_expert​ 

I don't think that based-on-actual-events and based-on-real-story are really the same thing. A production can be based on actual events but not based on a real story (which would mean there is a source material such as a book, play, etc.)

@adrian​

I am not quite following your perceived distinction between these two keywords ("based-on-actual-events" and "based-on-real-story"). But more importantly, the question is not whether one of these keywords should be merged into the other, but rather whether both of these keywords should be merged (technically, re-merged) into "based-on-true-story."

A title based on actual events is also based on a true story.

A title based on a real story is also based on a true story.

A majority of the titles that currently have either or both these keywords also have the keyword "based-on-true-story."

For these reasons, these keywords were already merged into "based-on-true-story." The only remaining thing to be done is to re-merge the keywords. 

You seem to be suggesting that a "real story" is different from a "true story," in that a "real story" necessarily involves a "source material such as a book, play, etc."

I disagree.  The phrase "real story," although not commonly used, to me means the same thing as "true story," regardless of whether that story has been previously captured in a book or other work. 

But more importantly, there are only currently 2 titles with the keyword based-on-real-story, and 1 of those titles has a plot description that begins "Based on the inspiring true story." So it does appear that the contributors who are still using "based-on-real-story" are (mostly?) using it as a synonym for "based-on-true-story." 

This is not true. "A title based on actual events is also based on a true story."

A title (in by title here I assume you a production such as film or tv show) can be based on actual events that isn't based on a story.

For me, "based on a true story" indicates a definitive source, such as In Cold Blood is based on Truman Capote's novelization of actual events. Where as based on actual events could be based on anything such as news broadcasts, history books, newspaper or magazine articles, etc. and could have many sources that they pull from.

@adrian​  I could see how the word "story" might be interpreted by some as implying that the true events were previously captured somewhere.

But all the various things you mentioned (novelizations, magazine and news articles, etc. could be "true stories").  After all, there are keywords like "based-on-magazine-story" and "based-on-newspaper-story." These are stories too. And nothing about the keyword "based-on-true-story" requires that it can only be based on a "definitive source" as you put it, or a single source as you imply.

Your argument might be more persuasive if you distinguished between titles (or productions, as you called them) that are based on a prior telling of the "story," versus titles based directly on the "actual events," with no prior retelling. The former could be said to be "based on a true story," while the latter could be said to be "based on actual events" rather than a "story" about those events.

In fact, the dictionary defines "true story" as "an account of something that really happened." So in order for something to be based on a true story, there is a potential argument that the story must have been previously told.

But the bottom line is that the vast, vast majority of IMDb contributors (and people in general) use "based-on-true-story" to indicate titles that are based on real life events (aka actual events, aka true events), regardless of whether those events were previously told in a "story" of any medium.

Just check out the numbers at the top of this thread: "based-on-true-story" is and always has been the default keyword for all of the above.

For titles like In Cold Blood, the keywords "based-on-true-story," "based-on-novel," and "based-on-book" could all be used on the same title. In fact, In Cold Blood currently has the first two of those three keywords. Adding in the additional keywords like "based-on-book" and "based-on-novel" help clarify that the title is not only based on a "true story" but also a written work.  

BTW, there is also the keyword "based-on-story," which is not as frequently used:

based-on-story (676 titles)

What exactly the keyword "based-on-story" means is another topic for another day. 

@keyword_expert​ Thanks for that!
Merged :)

Cheers!

@Bethanny​ Thank you!