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adrian
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Monday, December 31st, 2018 5:05 AM

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Additional Voice credits for Incredibles 2

I submitted a change to move "Additional Voice" credits from "Other Crew" to "Cast" credits which is where they belong. However, the deletion of the 51 credits in other crew is being declined. They do not belong in "other crew". Additional Voices are standard credits for any animate feature. Also, the "other crew" credits are incomplete for all "Additional Voices". Most of these credits belong to well known voice actors and this would be their only "Other Crew" credit. Please correct these (and give me credit for them in the year in totals) as I took a good half an hour to correct them in submission: #181230-181731-117000

 

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3 years ago

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Michelle

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6 years ago

Hi Adrian -

To clarify (as per our guidelines), 'Additional Voice' credits can only be listed as "Cast" when they are listed within, or immediately after, the main cast list on an animated title.

From your screen grab it's hard to tell how these Additional Voice credits were placed, were these directly after the main cast list or further down in the on-screen credits?

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adrian

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These credits are further down in the credits than you would normally see "Additional Voice" credits. However, these are still casts members and should be listed as such. Maybe, the policy needs to change as their is no reason I can see that it should matter where the credits are listed as these are normal credits for any animation. IMDb is doing a real disservice to these actors by not listing them as cast members due to the way someone decided to structure the credits. That seems to be a very arbitrary condition to be listed as voice cast. I understand for things in live action movies but this is animation and everyone expects that there will be actors voicing minor parts (some even turn out to be quite major to the structure of the feature) that get listed as "Additional Voices".

As you know, I edit a lot of animated TV shows. There are many, many known voice actors in this list, including the director (and the voice of Edna Mode), Brad Bird,  and Phil LaMarr who voices Krushauer and Helectrix. I'm just not sure how anyone could NOT consider these cast members for The Incredibles.

6 years ago

Will

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Thanks for your feedback Adrian, however these credits are not eligible in the cast section as explained by the policy above in regards to their position in the end credits.

Regards,
Will

6 years ago

adrian

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Will, 

This policy is absolutely arbitrary and wrong. It also goes against IMDb's state goal of being the most comprehensive guide to movies and television. I can no longer trust that voice actor's credits are comprehensive because of someone's decision of where to list "Additional Voices" credits in animated features. 

"Additional Voices" is not a job title like "production assistant" or "payroll accountant". It is solely a casting description in animated features. It makes no logical sense to put these in "other crew" as they are not crew members at all but cast members.

This really needs to change as it voice actors's filmographies incomplete and now forces people who are looking for a comprehensive list of titles to look in two different sections (and most people would never think to look in "Other Crew" for voice actors). Also, the policy just doesn't seem to serve any logical purpose.

Also, stating that is policy, really doesn't explain anything. The policies have frequently changed over time. Why is it policy instead of crediting these voice actors where they belong?

6 years ago

adrian

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This policy would be akin to have a policy that "additional writing" and "characters based off of" credits would only be writing credits if they immediately follow the other writer credits which would result for them also oddly appearing in the "Other Crew" section for when these credits appear at the of the credits.

I'm not aware of any other credits where there is a policy of where they appear in the credits that affects what group they are credited in.

6 years ago

adrian

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Another way to think of this. Say this sentence out loud: "The completeness of a voice actor's filmography on IMDb is completely dependent on the decision of the end credit designer for every feature they have worked on." If this sentence sounds sane and logical, then the policy is correct. If, however, it sounds as bonkers to you as it does to me, then the policy needs to change.

Note: I'm only talking animated titles here. I can understand this distinction for live action movies where "Additional Voices" are most likely "adr" credits and belong in the other crew section.

6 years ago

eboy

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6 years ago

I don’t have a strong opinion on ”additional voices” credits (I’m sure many of them are legitimate voice actors, while some are probably more like additional background voices and such), but I have to say it slightly irks me that people think that the credits in ”Other Crew” are somewhat ”lesser professions”. Like if your credits goes to ”Other crew”, it means you did less than others. Or that you are not ”professional enough”.

I always think that ”Other Crew” mainly lists occupations and credits that doesn’t fit to other departments (for some reason or another - there can be literally hundreds of different credits/occupations). Sure, some of them certainly have - for the lack of a better word - less ”artistic input”, but saying that they’re ”less important” or ”not really important” is not really the right way to treat different occupations on IMDb. You can be professional in many different areas - also in ”Other Crew”.

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adrian

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I am making no commentary on the credits in "Other Crew" other than to say that these credits do no belong there. I know that it would be impossible for IMDb to create a class for every credit and that "Other Crew" just becomes a catch all for credits that don't belong in any other grouping. All I'm saying is that these are not crew positions at all but cast positions.

"Additional Voices" for animated features are almost all professional voices actors (though you do get the occasional producer and other crew member in here) For example, Fred Tatasciore is the voice of the Hulk and most Marvel animated series (along with all kinds of other characters). He would be cast for his very distinctive voice style. Max Mittelman is the voice of Harry Osbourne on the new Spider-Man. These are professional voice actors and it is just arbitrary that these credits are not part of the cast listing.

6 years ago

eboy

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I see your point (and like I said, I don’t have a strong opinion on this particular matter), but I believe the previous credits or ”reputation” (as an voice actor) doesn’t really play a part here. Only the credit and where it’s listed among the end credits.

6 years ago

adrian

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Having a credit go in to two different departments dependent on where it appears in the credits is quite arbitrary and I do not believe any other grouping has this dependency. In fact, groups like writing credits say specifically they can appear throughout the credits.

6 years ago

ljdoncel

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3 years ago

Hi, folks:

Sorry to revive an old thread, but I am faced with a dilemma.

I have never been a big fan of the policy regarding Additional Voice credits. My opinion is similar to @adrian's. I feel that, at least for animation and video game titles, they should be added to the cast section, regardless of their position in the end credits.

Today I was checking Lady and the Tramp II: Scamp's Adventure (2001) (V) and this is what the on-screen credits show:

Right now all of these additional voice credits appear in the cast section, but their order numbers are incorrect because they were probably added at the time when the policy of skipping the place occupied by actors who are listed more than once in the credit roll was not yet enforced.

Therefore, I must choose between doing one of the following two things:
  1. Ignore that these additional voice credits are in the cast section, and limit myself to correcting the order numbers.

  2. Apply current IMDb guidelines and, given that these credits do not appear within, or immediately after, the main cast list, move people like Tress MacNeille and Frank Welker to the Other Crew section, even though they have a recognized character (note that the guidelines do not differentiate between whether a voice credit has a character description or not: just "voice work [...] must be credited in cast")

I guess I'll end up going with the second option (after all, those are the rules and we should be strict with them {sorry for #210220-221531-428000 btw}), but it's sad that, if instead of being an animated film it were a live-action film with ordinary (not voice) credits, the acting work of these actors would be recognized within the acting (cast) section, and their position in the credit roll wouldn't matter.

P.S. Thanks to GetSatisfaction for fixing the image compression problem...

(edited)

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mbmb

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@ljdoncel Since they have character names, I really think you should keep them in cast section. Guideline says "i.e. no background voices or adr work", and I think it's OK to interpret next sentence as it's talking about only Additional Voice character or occupation name only (without specific character names, ones that's only listed as Additional Voices). But that's not the case here. They having character names shows they're cast credits. How you're going to add them to Misc. section anyway? Making "character name" an occupation? That just doesn't sound right.

(edited)

3 years ago

ljdoncel

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Hi, @mbmb, thank you for your comment.

I think it's OK to interpret next sentence as it's talking about only Additional Voice character or occupation name only

Yes, I think that is clear.

How you're going to add them to Misc. section anyway?

Easy: "additional voice artist: Jim Dear", for instance.

They having character names shows they're cast credits.

That's more or less my point. My point is that the cast section can be split into more than one subsection during the credits, but it's still cast. And, just as when in non-animation titles a listing of names appears under "Additional Cast", "Background Actors" or "Extras" near the end of the credit roll (with or without a character description) they should be included in the cast section, for animation titles and video games a listing of "Additional Voices" could be considered part of the cast section regardless of their position in the credits. An "Additional Voices" in an animation title is probably more likely to refer to an actor who has played a minor role, than to the adr people or walla groups, which are usually identified as such.

Anyway, you're right that for the case I've presented of Lady and the Tramp II it seems fairly straightforward to justify those credits remaining in the cast, so I will send an update to fix the order numbers, which, after all, is what seems fair, regardless of the interpretation that may be given to the guidelines.

(edited)

3 years ago

ljdoncel

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3 years ago

Hi, folks:

About The Nightmare Before Christmas (1993), in what could be a continuation of this thread (on which, by the way, I would have appreciated if any staff member had weighed in), I am faced with the same dilemma, but, this time, the voice actors are credited on screen literally as "Additional Voices" (no specific character names).

Currently, these 18 names are listed in cast section (with wrong order numbers, btw). Paraphrasing Will (former employee), "these credits are not eligible in the cast section as explained by the policy above in regards to their position in the end credits."

I will wait a week before moving all these names to the Other crew section, in the hope that in this time this policy will be reconsidered. I know it's not going to happen, but there is no harm in trying...

Note: This comment was created from a merged conversation originally titled Additional Voices (Chapter 2): The Nightmare Before Christmas (1993)

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ljdoncel

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I would have appreciated a minimal explanation from the staff before my post would have almost instantly merged with a 3 month old thread, which in turn references a 3 year old thread, for which I was merely claiming an update or ratification of the site's official position on this issue.

Since it is quite clear that this is not going to happen, I request that the update confirming the actors' move to the miscellaneous section (#220304-224915-592000) be approved.

Thank you.

3 years ago

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