jennifer_winter_g3hvevppq4m3y's profile

6 Messages

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162 Points

Wednesday, June 13th, 2018 8:18 PM

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Accounting Department

The accounting department is a large department. Production Accounting teams are responsible for budgeting, money management and paying the entire cast and crew. I do believe we should be categorized as our own department.

This conversation has been merged. Please refer the main conversation:

Production Accountant Credit

2.4K Messages

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81.2K Points

6 years ago

For having worked in business and money departments for more than 30 years, please allow me to disagree: accounting has no impact whatsoever about the creative process of a film. My 2 cents.

Champion

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243.8K Points

As an independent filmmaker my two cents as well is that accounting is a large part of production, but indeed, it has barely anything to do with creative process. 

Still, very much a necessity and having separate professionals to do that is much better then going through the bills yourself while you can go and film smething... 

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82.2K Points

Well, the OP never said the accountants deal with the creative process of a film. She just stated it's a big department.
Also, IMDb has a separate section for the Transportation Department (https://help.imdb.com/article/contribution/filmography-credits/transportation-department/GKAQS95JUDN...#) and to the best of my knowledge (but I'm not in the industry) that's not an incredibly creative department either.

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81.2K Points

Precisely, I really do not see the point in having such a singularization!

2 Messages

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122 Points

I am an accountant in the film industry, and though some don't directly effect the creative process I'd argue that production accountants who do budgeting or assist producers in budgeting do effect the creative process directly as they determine how big a scene can be from that. IMDB credits/categories being based on the creative process seems idiotic, first of all. By your reasoning producers shouldn't have their own category as they hire and negotiate the deals with the creative people and only make creative decisions based on money (like, no, you can't explode an entire hospital for that scene just for the hell of it, not in the budget!) second we also easily fit under production management, why not add us to that existing category then along with the people we work closest with, UPM, production supervisors and the like?

Champion

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243.8K Points

I should say that I really respect any profession in film industry regardless of how creative it gets: you can't do a movie alone or at least it will be extremely hard an painful. Each crew member provides something great for production. I think that combining accountant with production managers can be quite a good decision, but I wonder whether PMs and UPMs  have second thoughts about that... As far as I know both of those jobs require a producers guild membership, while I don't know whether having such is the norm for accountants as well... 

As for departments: IMDb in general is very slowly at exapnding the departments, as it requires a lot of internal workings. It is done quite slowly, but there are some proceedings in the area and the expansion has nothing to do with "creative decision" importance: it's just that grouping anything and then implementing it takes a lot of time. That and, guilds as well shape how some of the departments look and what they include. 

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OK Nikolay, but there has been such an inflation over the credits in the past decades... In the 1930's-1950's, a film credit would consist of less that 10 cartons, i.e. about 40 names at the most. Still in the 1970's, a maximum of about 100 names were displayed. Now we are counting several hundreds, and final credits are rarely scrolling under 10'.
Sorry but this is utterly ridiculous: all of the names there, including accountants (and drivers !), cannot have the same involvements as the major functions (producing, writing, directing, acting, editing) that do make up a film.

There has always been drivers and accountants since movies were made, especially in the studio system in Hollywood. What kind of recognition does it bring tto have their names in the credits ? Does the fact of having their names displayed have made the films better?

My answer, after 50 years and more than 5000 films of viewing, is definitely: no. There are some good films being produced nowadays, as there have been since Griffith, Eisenstein, Epstein, Dreyer, etc.
Never forget that films are made for the public, not for the "makers".

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82.2K Points

There has always been drivers and accountants since movies were made, especially in the studio system in Hollywood. What kind of recognition does it bring tto [sic] have their names in the credits ? Does the fact of having their names displayed have made the films better?
Do you feel IMDb shouldn't list these on their site at all? And if you do, where would you draw the line?

Champion

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243.8K Points

Standards in the industry changed for a reason and I believe that it was a bit unfair to not have people who honestly worked hard on the movie uncredited. Sometimes I feel like researching and adding more of such people to have their filmographies there, even with "(uncredited)". People should know that studio productions always required a lot of people and it's not a recent addition. 

And yes, IMDb should list everything from the credits, in my humble opinion. 

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81.2K Points

Marco: Good question!

I do not pretend to have the correct answer at once. The current IMDb policy is to rely solely on credits, regardless of the actual historical data, stemming from research (books, interviews, TV subjects, etc.), and I resent this.
I am also baffled that acountants and drivers would show (why not as it is "factual data"), when dubbers have been ignored since the beginning.
My personal approach would be to focus on the 5 main core functions (producing, scripting, directing, photographying, editing) without which a film cannot be, then adding the artistic creative functions (music, sound, designing, costumes, etc.), which  could be extended to the graphic (i.e. digital) image processing.
My 2 cents.

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81.2K Points

Nikolay: I am OK with IMDb relying mainly on credits, there is a rationale behind it, but, especially when it comes non explicit information e.g. "uncredited" or deleted scene, IMDb cannot be considered as a research source. It just shows the external side of a movie, and that's too bad.

Champion

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243.8K Points

I am a longtime defender of including the international versions and subs into the credits, especially since ephemeral "English version" is okay, despite at times being little more then a dub itself, if not exactly that. 

As for deleted scenes and uncredited entries: I always loved those and they are really interesting to research at times, but that's just me and I am a lifelong movie buff with very specific interests. :) 

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My two cents: I feel IMDb should rely on the credits, but also on research, historical data and whatnot. But if someone is credited, I feel it should be listed on IMDb. (even if the person didn't do any work on it, therefore we have the attribute (credit only))

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224.7K Points

6 years ago

Well, for the sake of avoiding the IMDb "other crew" sections of too many large-scale productions from being cluttered with accountants, this idea probably has merit. Furthermore, it should be policy to create a new crew section whenever "enough" movies are being published with credits for production support departments staffed with over a dozen people having more than two occupational designations.

8.2K Messages

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172.7K Points

6 years ago

The accounting department is a large department.
by Jennifer Winter
Joined on June 13, 2018
https://getsatisfaction.com/imdb/people/jennifer_winter_g3hvevppq4m3y
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on TCM now (June 20 2018 2:00 AM GS time)
An American in Paris  (1951)
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0043278/
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0043278/reference
Gene Kelly   ...  Jerry Mulligan
Leslie Caron ...  Lise Bouvier
Oscar Levant  ...  Adam Cook 

Box Office
Budget $2,723,903 (estimated) 
Gross United States $4,500,000 

Accounting Department ?? not listed
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OK, how many people would decide to watch a movie or TV show
because some Accountant worked on the production
so they would look that up on IMDb and see what else that Accountant worked on

Accountants not listed on screen ?
How would IMDb find the list of Accountants
for 1930's, 1940's 1950's, 1960's, 1970's, 1980's ...

https://www.imdb.com/search/title?release_date=1930-01-01,2018-12-31
Most Popular Titles Released 1930  to 2018 
4,498,580 titles 
- - -


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accountant


6 Messages

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162 Points

6 years ago

Never forget that films are made for the public, not for the "makers". - Vincent Fournols
Yes, but IMDB and specifically, IMDB Pro are made for both. In fact, without knowing the exact stats, I am confident IMDB Pro is geared toward industry professionals. It is a widely used tool which professionals use to establish work history for potential crew as well as stages of development and budget amounts. Budgets - the item that accounting is greatly responsible for maintaining if not creating, Also, no we may not be part of the creative process, but accountants are an intricate part of the team. Accounting is one of the few departments which can also be considered as management, if not their own category. What about grip and electric, are they part of the creative process? Based on your way of thinking, there would be no independent department headers. The fact is, most of the crew are not considered "creative", but without them movie magic can't be made. 

11 Messages

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200 Points

2 years ago

This issue has been raised again with IMDB as it is high time Accounting got their own department! 

6 Messages

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162 Points

@SamScowcroft​ 4 years since I posted. It was a battle then and its still a battle. It would be nice to be heard.

(edited)

11 Messages

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200 Points

@jennifer_winter_g3hvevppq4m3y​ right!?!?! If we can get the new request out to as many in and out of our department maybe they will HAVE to listen..... you'd hope.....

https://community-imdb.sprinklr.com/conversations/data-issues-policy-discussions/production-accountant-credit/62f2e79ac5eeb86e2c3788e6