J

8 Messages

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142 Points

Wed, Jan 27, 2021 8:46 PM

-1

Time to give guidelines on how to rate a show/movie.

Hey IMDB, its time that you give a basic guideline on how people rate shows/movies.  There are WAY too many people that will go straight to either a 10 or a 1.   Its should be pretty rare that a movie is a 1 and virtually impossible for a movie to rate a 10.   I shouldn't have to browse 30 reviews to see if they are too many 10's or 1's.  

When giving a review for a show, a person should start off at a middle 5 them move up or down from there given how well the show progressed.  When people give a 1 rating and they watched a movie for 5 minutes, that hurts the entire rating system as much as simply giving a 10.

Additionally, there should be a way to show/say how you watched. People will rate a movie differently if you PAID to see it in a theater at $20 a person, paid $2 to rent it, paid $15/mo for HBO etc or watched it for FREE.   If I paid $60 (for 2) to watch a movie, I would most likely be more harsh rating as if I saw it for FREE on say Tubi. 

Just my food for thought.... FYI - this insight is what you pay your executives $100k+ a year to come up with.   If you want tens of thousands of dollars worth of great advice,  get in touch.    JCinHB

Responses

27 Messages

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402 Points

4 m ago

Better yet, how about new users be restricted of not giving anything more than a 7/10, and no less than a 3/10? I know for a fact when there are many 10/10 fake reviews and I feel it's an honest 4/10, I WILL give it a 1/10 to even the score. I know many people do that when they see all the obvious fake reviews, especially if they didn't do their due diligence to see if it's a new single review account, and go in thinking they are about to see a great movie, and it end up being garbage. It's happened to me, I get pissed, and it's an automatic 1/10. What EVEN WORSE, is that those fake 10/10's will downvote and report any low ratings/reviews for deletion, and the get deleted, unbeknownst to the poster, yet the fake 10/10's still stay and control the rest of the reviews. The entire system is flawed and needs a major overhaul! IMDb needs to show the true critics reviews/rating on every movie next to the members ratings/reviews, just like Rotten Tomatoes does, so that way, one can tell if the member reviews are legit or far fetched.

27 Messages

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402 Points

4 m ago

Oh, and I don't agree on a rating system whether someone paid or saw the movie for free - my time is more valuable than any ticket price.

8 Messages

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142 Points

@MisterT 

I agree on your time being more valuable.... BUT....  Considering movie tix are $20 around me here in So Cal, I truly do rate a movie differently if I pay to see it or see it free on TV.  Call me cheap, but I truly will feel different if I paid $60 (2 tix, popcorn & sodas) or if I did some microwave popcorn at home and watched it for free.   (Getting into, full price, matinee price, movie rental, HBO or FREE is of course splitting hairs to a degree)

20 Messages

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312 Points

4 m ago

You can't go questioning every single rating.

Not everyone has the same opinion (luckily), not everyone has the same experience and the same mood watching a movie.

Yet I agree that there are some silly voters.

But luckily big numbers win and the crowd is wiser.

Just as an example, we all know that "Birth of a Nation" is considered a masterpiece by someone and crappy racist work by somebody else. This is clearly visible in rating breackdown. I could go on with many examples of movies I heavily underrated or overrated with respect to average because something hit my senses or my sensibilty in a good or bad way.

As a matter of rating, I use this policy:

  • 10: the handful of movies that stay close to my heart. They are not necessarily the absolute masterpieces of film history, they are just movies that mean a lot to me.
  • 9: what I think is a masterpiece.
  • 8: great movies.
  • 7: very good movies worthwhile watching.
  • 6: good or not bad movies. They do their job without adding anithing to what you already knew or expected.
  • 5: that's for poor movies or deceiving movies. Still watchable, but at the end you are not happy.
  • 4: seriuosly bad movies.
  • 3 2 1 ... : tipically I don't loose time rating this kind of movies.

8.1K Messages

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184.5K Points

Well, The Birth of a Nation is a racist propaganda technical masterpiece, and while the technical aspects of the production and post-production behind it haven't stood the full test of time, as they perhaps couldn't on account of no movie so old being able to do that, the logistics, cinematography, effects and editing were amazing back in the 1910s. It would've been improved had there been zero use of the "black face" technique, but even so, no amount of technical brilliance could've ever changed the fact that the film always was disingenuous propaganda, designed to paint the Ku Klux Klan in an admirable light while vilifying or ignoring everything the governments did to uphold the fourteenth amendment to the Constitution of the  United States. However, the argument could be made that the film was intended to be prophetic, but just as well, perhaps a self-fulfilling prophecy, almost like falsely accusing somebody of child molestation, riling up a mob to attack that person, and then claiming, "I told you so!", when that person winds up joining forces with gangster scum in order to merely defend his or her life. Anyway, how to rate such a film is obfuscated by the message of the film, so a rational person who understands the quality of the film against the technical limitations existing in 1914 would probably try to break even in rating it. Sans education, most people probably cannot bring themselves do that, though.

8 Messages

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142 Points

@uomotorta 

See, you do have a system.... I have found that way too many new lower budget movies will have a 7 rating because there are a bunch of 10's and a few 1's to bring it to a 7, but using some logic, you can see this movie is most likely a 1 because a few people came out and gave it 10's to increase the average.  

I would rather know a movie is a 4 or 5 and I will give it a chance, but when I see all reviews are 10's and 1's, I can pretty much safely assume its more like a 1-2 and I don't even start to watch... so I actually do have to check the reviews 

20 Messages

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312 Points

@JCinHB 

Yes, I do have one. I'm not randomly rating movies.

Everyone (or almost everyone) has a system and some standard to rate movies.

But now you question some user's rating, then you will question some user's system. 

IMDB ratings are a tool you can use, but they are not the Truth. It's just a collection of opinions.

If you see a movie with 100k votes I think you can get an idea, while if you see a movie with 20 votes you simply don't.

Obviously this doesn't mean that you must agree with the 100k. But together with all the other information you have about the movie (director, producers, cinematographers, writer, actors, genre, votes breakdown per age, sex and geo, critics, ....) you can definitely create your upfront idea and decide if you want to watch it or not.

If you just have 20 votes, it's just a matter of statistics, it's not reliable. No matter if 10 votes are 9 and 10 votes are 1 or if all 20 votes are 5. It's simply not reliable.

That's my umble opinion and the way I use IMDB. 

On the other hand  I agree on the possibility of specifying how you watched a movie. There are a lot of young kids watching movies on smartphones.

This would be a crime if I was president. :)

17 Messages

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372 Points

4 m ago

The idea of new members limited to vote under/above 4-7 is smart. That should clear away some people who creates new memberships just to ruin the vote. This time must be limited of course, perhaps one month is appropriate.

I don't think there should be any differences over how you watched the movie. It doesn't matter if you watched it in a cinema or on your computer.

I think the best way to get rid of people who deteriorate more than they contribute to IMDb is to change the membership so that the service cost money. I don't mean 'IMDb Pro', just a small monthly fee for a full membership (I think around $2-3 is reasonable). A free version may exist, but without the possibility to vote or review.

A lot of people would like to pay a small sum to make the site and the overall experience better. And some people will hate it, of course.

-----
If any staff from IMDb reads this I want to say that I just lost my job due to my office being moved. I'm eager to get a new job and to work with IMDb would be really appealing. ;)
-----

(edited)

27 Messages

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402 Points

@Emil_Trigedasleng personally I think it should be a year, but the user can still rate, just not review. In addition, if that account even after one year, has zero reviews because it sat dormant ready to pounce on behalf of a film maker, then the 4-7 starts again for another year. I don't agree with the fee, because that will turn off regular users, when Rotten Tomatoes is free, plus it will do nothing to deter filmmakers from posting fake reviews; they wont care about paying any amount of fees if it helps them promote their movie. 

17 Messages

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372 Points

@MisterT 

"...plus it will do nothing to deter filmmakers from posting fake reviews; they wont care about paying any amount of fees if it helps them promote their movie."

Is this a big problem on IMDb? I haven't noticed it at least, but I haven't been looking for it either.

(edited)

27 Messages

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402 Points

It's a HUGE problem. I search a title to see if the ratings/review recommend it's good, and one would think so with all the 10/10's, but you slide over to Rotten Tomatoes to check out the real critics (NY Times, Hollywood Reporter, Roger Ebert, etc.) and it's a horrible movie. You click on all the 8, 9 and 10/10's, and they are all new accounts only praising that tittle. Then you have those fake reviews downvoting and reporting all the honest low reviews for deletion, and they get deleted! Thus IMDb has become a platform for film makers to upsell their film with fake high ratings and reviews, instead of being an honest and transparent forum for users to evaluate a movie and/or check if it's good enough to see.

Here's a "few" examples, and I've reposted my honest low reviews many times, only to have them all deleted, and after reposting a bunch of times, now they don't even show up, just like many other low reviews I noticed vanish. What's worse is that none of those members even know that their review was deleted, and only the high praise reviews stay.

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt10872080/

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt3195192/

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt13281680/


8.1K Messages

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184.5K Points

Well, member accounts that exhibit a pervasive pattern of submitting false reports against movie re views that are not in violation of guideline ought to be blocked are more expediently that usual. Some technical adjustments could be implemented to mitigate some of the problems presented (like somebody being able to be aware that his or her review has been taken offline), but we can't expect to see them anytime soon, as for whatever reason, it is just not high among the IMDb company's priorities.

8 Messages

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142 Points

@Emil_Trigedasleng

I for one will always feel different about a movie if I paid $60 to see it or NOTHING to see it at home.  Call me cheap, but when I pay $60 (me/GF & popcorn/soda), I will feel worse if a movie is a piece of junk.

Point 2, maybe a super cheap paid version might work, and I would say even $5 a year OR,  what ever fee you pay, you get an equal coupon value for something.

Either way, this rating system is becoming worthless to a degree.  I just watched Disney's Luca and sooooo many 10's.  The movie was OK, but in NO WAY was it in the top 25 of 

Disney movies and people were acting like its a masterpiece which it clearly is not.   People simply will go 1 or 10 way too easy. It is messing with the system. 

8 Messages

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142 Points

@jeorj_euler 

Well, if IMDB doesn't do something to reel in extreme reviews both 1's or 10's, they will lose credibility in their rating system.  

Personally, I don't want to have to read 20 reviews before I turn on a movie.  I would like to basically believe any movie rates 4.5 and up is at least worth starting to watch.  As I say, a 5 is a solid average movie, something that should at least entertain you and make you watch till the end. 

But when people are handing out 10's like candy on Halloween, it cheapens the whole ratings system. 

8.1K Messages

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184.5K Points

Well, there is already a secretive proprietary system in place concerning all this. It's quite possible that the votes in either of the absolute extremes don't count for anything anyway on titles that have received a lot of votes.

8.1K Messages

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184.5K Points

4 m ago

I see no need for guidelines (often interpreted to mean "rules"), but I do wonder if and hope that some kind of official advice might be helpful for people who actually want to make the effort of assigning meaningful ratings. Unfortunately, the best advice I could provide was the following:

That's a good question, but I simply recommend that everybody try the best he or she can to rate a large variety of movies consistently. The best way to do that is to assign high ratings to movies that produce positive feelings upon every viewing, and assign low ratings for negative feelings. Things get more complicated when judging the technical mastery of the parts and aspects of the content of movies. So, movies that are liked but which are full of plot holes, hokey acting and hokey effects  would considered guilty pleasures, For those kind, a rating of 5 or 6 seem right. Likewise this may apply to disliked movies but which are very logical, realistic and authentic.

I don't what to do about bots, trolls, shills, manipulators, sockpuppets and meatpuppets, but as I understand it, IMDb already has a system to address and foil attempts to inflate or deflate a movie's eligibility to be listed among IMDb's top-rated 250 movies, yet I'm not sure what can be done about "wars" over what shall occupy the number one spot on that listing.

What I've stated thus far only really pertains to the casting of ratings votes. Publication of movie reviews may be a whole other story. It might not hurt to establish some kind of probationary period to be imposed upon every newly-registered member of IMDb, as far as this concerns the ability for reviews posted by them to actually be visible to the public (such as at least anybody visiting the site while logged in, perhaps extending further).

8 Messages

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142 Points

@jeorj_euler

Well I agree that who wants tons of rules...BUT, when you take a quick look a some movie and its rated at 7.5-8.0 (which should be one of the better made of all time) and you find out its a movie that should have never been made in the first place, something needs to be done to fix this. Otherwise, IMDB loses credibility. 

8.1K Messages

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184.5K Points

I've never considered IMDb to have high credibility in the context of movie ratings. Furthermore, I'm not so sure that any website is credible in that regard. All of these ratings hare heavily opinionated, and it comes to the question of who is to judge whether something is a genuine opinion or a fake opinion.

8 Messages

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142 Points

@jeorj_euler

Then I wish they had two separate averages, Everyone and Preferred members.

Because reviews by 'those people' who are the ones that do 1's or 10's push up OR down a movies average is making the rating scale worthless.   

Come on, there aren't that many of 1's and really, there is no such thing as a 'perfect' 10 movie either.  

Don't get me wrong, I like reading what some of those people have to say, but really saying a movie (like the recent Peter Rabbit) is a 10 and the BEST MOVIE ever is comical.  It was enjoyable and really, it should fall in a range of a 4 to a 7... 

17 Messages

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372 Points

3 m ago

It seems quite obvious that IMDb need some forms of updates to secure a fair and reliable rating system.

1 Message

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60 Points

2 m ago

Using a simple 1 to 10 scale to rate the entire catalogue of 8 million titles is pretty absurd when you think about it. 

Many productions are completely alien to other works found in another genre, period, or medium. Yet you still need to fit them all together within this narrow framework. It is obvious you will get some arbitrary results.

@JCinHB I think you are right in principle - give users a basic methodology on how to rate a title. Try to make the process more uniform. I'm not sure how effective it would be, but it is worth a try.

I am not keen on the restricting new users to 3-7 system. That sounds like papering over the cracks rather than solving anything. 

I would prefer to be able to rank a film over 100 points. Would be more useful, but not without its own issues.

8 Messages

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142 Points

@Chazzwaller

I agree using a 100 point scale and after thinking about it, they should then have two averages, Everyone and Preferred Members. 

You can take a look at both averages and get a better idea of what is closer a reality of a true average.   

20 Messages

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312 Points

@JCinHB

The 100 points scale can be ok, but in the end I'm not sure it would add a lot.

If you check the rating breackdown you already have a sort of "preferred members" scale: it's the top 1000 voters.