old_film_lover's profile

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424 Points

Tuesday, November 7th, 2023

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What to Do When a Major New Blu-ray Release Falsifies IMDb Cast Lists and Staff Won't Accept the Corrections?

OK, here is my latest problem, one that many advanced IMDb contributors like myself have doubtless experienced.  

I've corrected hundreds of release dates for IMDb by researching on various newspaper archives.  IMDb almost always accepts these corrections, presumably because I link to irrefutable evidence on newspapers.com or other sites.  However, it's more difficult when I'm trying to make changes to cast lists, because cast lists aren't typically put up on the internet, where they can be linked to.  Yet many of the cast lists/screen credits on the IMDb are filled with errors, due to sloppy or uninformed entries by IMDb users in the past (whose erroneous data was apparently back in the day accepted by IMDb staff without requiring proof from the user), so I try to correct them.  Now, I have a library of 2500+ DVDs and Blu-rays, chock full of special features, commentaries, etc.  Whenever I can, I try to update or correct flawed IMDb entries based on my viewing of the movies, when I *know* I have an authentic edition of the film with the original screen credits.  Yet often IMDb staff will not accept my corrections.  The comment I get is "Unable to Verify" or the like.  Now, it's very hard for me to prove to IMDb staff that my information is accurate when I have the actual credits screen of the film in front of me, and the IMDb staff doesn't.  So how do I go about convincing an IMDb staffer that I'm not lying, that I in fact am reading the original screen credits off a Blu-ray or DVD produced by top historical film scholars?  I'll give my latest example:

This Fall (2023) Flicker Alley released Laurel and Hardy: Year One, a Blu-ray collection of 15 Laurel and Hardy shorts, fully restored, with the original screen credits, and detailed commentaries on each film.  I've been watching these one by one, and, naturally enough, trying to enter corrections each night as I watch a new film.  The corrections are sometimes complex and laborious, and last night I spent over an hour working out a corrected cast list for "45 Minutes from Hollywood", and had the changes rejected by someone at IMDb who does not have the Blu-ray set, has never seen the original screen credits, and has no idea whether or not the current credits on the IMDb are accurate.  Here is what I wrote under each of the "justification" blanks for the reordering.  (The "once again" refers to a previous rejection of my corrections based on my viewing of this set.)

"Once again, I explain that I have the new (Fall 2023) deluxe Blu-ray edition of Laurel and Hardy: Year One (put out by Flicker Alley and Blackhawk films), which contains a top-level restoration, including all missing footage, the original screen credits, and commentary by silent film expert Randy Skretvedt on every minute of every film in the collection, including this one. I have the film's original 1926 opening credits on freeze-frame as I type this, and my information is 100% accurate, so I hope I won't be overruled (yet again) by someone at IMDb who has never seen the film at all and certainly doesn't have the up-to-date information I possess. The screen credits currently on IMDb for this film are wrong in several ways. First, they are out of order; second, they show some actors who don't have screen credit, and omit other actors who do. I will try to correct this. The screen credits on the restored print of the film, dating from 1926, are as follows: 1- Glenn Tryon, and on the next screen, after the word "With", 2- Oliver Hardy, 3- Edna Murphy, 4- Rube Clifford, 5- Charlotte Mineau, 6- Stan Laurel. Sally O'Neil and Jerry Mandy are NOT in the on-screen credits, and should be moved down into the lower section of the IMDb credits, whereas Stan Laurel needs to be moved up into the upper section, and the new order in the top section should be: Tryon, Glenn - 1; Hardy, Oliver - 2; Murphy, Edna - 3; Clifford, Jack Rube - 4; Mineau, Charlotte - 5; and Laurel, Stan - 6."

Along with the above justification, I entered the new ordering numbers under each of the appropriate names, using the usual form provided for cast list corrections.

All of this, which took me a long time to work out, and type up, has been rejected.  So, how do I go about proving to IMDb staff what I *know* (not just think, but *know*) to be true?  Is there some way of taking a picture of a Blu-ray credits screen?  How can I do that?  Will my computer's DVD player read a Blu-ray?  I doubt it.  And if I can't put the Blu-ray in my computer, how am I going to capture an image of the screen credits?  And even if I could capture it, how would I get it to IMDb?  I've offered in the past to send images as pdfs attached to emails, or to upload pdfs from my computer directly to IMDb, but IMDb tells me that I can't upload anything from my computer, but only from a web site.  But how can I get an image from a brand-new 2023 Blu-ray onto a web site, so that I can link to it?

Can someone at IMDb walk me through the technical steps for taking images off a DVD or Blu-ray and conveying images taken from DVDs and Blu-rays and getting them to IMDb?  If it could be explained here, in this forum, it would help not only me, but dozens of other contributors who must be experiencing similar problems.

If there is a way I can assure that my corrections will be accepted, I would like to know it, because it is frustrating to be in the position I'm in.  I spend over a thousand hours per year not just watching films but studying them, listening to commentaries about them by professors of film studies and film historians, reading books about them, etc.  I also possess a doctorate in history and know how to do detailed research and present evidence, and I'm an extremely meticulous scholar.  I don't mind putting in hours of work free of charge to increase the accuracy of IMDb, but I need to know that if I put in the hours, I won't be continually overruled by people who don't have a vast collection of movies like mine, and who aren't taking the time to check my claims by actually playing 15 seconds of screen credits from the movies I'm talking about and viewing the screen credits themselves.  If IMDb wants to present truly accurate information about the movies, it has to provide channels through which serious film scholars can correct the hasty and inaccurate submissions of much less careful contributors.  Any help in this area would be appreciated not only by me, but by others with a similar passion for accurate film scholarship.

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Employee

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2 years ago

Hi @old_film_lover,

Thank you for your problem report.

For cast corrections, you will need to provide evidence to help us verify your submissions. You can follow instructions on our help page for providing evidence to assist our processing team approve these corrections. As you'll see in the instructions, when you select the tick box to provide an explanation with your submission in the Contribution Form, you will be given the option to upload evidence via a hyperlink. Here you can attach images or screenshots of the on-screen credits to support your submissions. In this particular case, we suggest you take photos of the on-screen credits and upload them via the aforementioned method to help us verify your corrections.

I hope this helps!

25 Messages

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424 Points

Thanks for replying, Ozzy.  Let me point out some problems or at least further questions with your answer:

1.  I'm one of those technological primitives who does not own a hand-held device (I-phone, etc.) capable of taking pictures.  So I have no way of taking a picture of what's on my TV screen when I have the credits freeze-framed.

2.  I *can* put a DVD into my computer, and then presumably could use the media-playing software (Windows Media Player) on my computer to freeze a page and then copy it as an image, after which it would be a portable file (jpg or pdf).  But that would work only for DVDs, not for Blu-rays, since my computer is old and has only a DVD player, not a Blu-ray player.  It also probably would not work for my many Region 2 DVDs, since my computer's drive probably could not read them.  So in many cases I would not be able to get an image of the screen credits onto my computer from my disks.

3.  Even supposing I could buy or borrow a handheld device to take the pictures, there is still a problem with your solution.  You say that I would then have to upload the evidence via a hyperlink.  But that means that any image I captured would have to be stored on a website.  Where?  I don't have a personal website of my own, and I am not a member of Facebook, etc.  Where could I possibly place the image so that I could link to it so that IMDb staff could read it?  

4.  I had this problem with IMDb before.  I had an actual pdf of a program from an Irish film festival which proved one of my release date changes.  I offered to upload it directly from my computer.  I was told by IMDb, no you cannot upload the pdf from your computer; we can only accept files found on websites.  But why such a silly restriction?  People send pdfs as e-mail attachments or upload them directly from their computers every day, in business, in government, etc.  Why is IMDb unwilling to receive files and images in this way?  Why does it insist they have to be stored on some website?  Can you not provide alternate channels, e.g., a general email mailbox where people could send emails with attached images, or else allow for direct uploads of image files from one's home computer to IMDb?  Could you talk to someone in your tech department about this possibility?  In my professional world, which is a world of academics and publishing company editors, e-mails with attached files is the way we send material to each other all the time.  I don't understand why IMDb could not add a channel for this kind of communication.

Employee

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2.6K Messages

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27K Points

Hi @old_film_lover,

The hyperlink previously mentioned was a link contributors can click to be taken to a page where they can directly upload files to support their submissions. Here, we support .png, .jpg, .jpeg and .pdf file types. Apologies if that was not clear. More information on how to do this can be found in the instructions and video on our help page.

This method is how our contributors provide evidence to support these types of submission, which is required when adding and correcting cast listings, so that our processing team can verify the information being added or modified.

I'm sorry for the inconvenience previously caused with you being advised that we do not accept .pdf files. However, I can confirm with release date submissions we currently do not support file uploads as evidence, only links to official sites that validate the relevant information.

I hope this helps!

890 Messages

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17.3K Points

@old_film_lover​ You can upload images to a site like this https://imgur.com/

You don't even need an account to upload and get a link, but if you wish to manage your images and refer to them again you can make an account for free and your images can be kept hidden to anyone who doesn't have a direct link. I purely use it for IMDb evidence.

25 Messages

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424 Points

Thanks for this information, VonPunk.  You have used that site for a while?  Would you say it is safe, i.e., that in using it you aren't enabling compromising links to your computer, through which someone could implant malware, etc.?

25 Messages

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424 Points

@Ozzy​ 

Ozzy, you wrote:

"The hyperlink previously mentioned was a link contributors can click to be taken to a page where they can directly upload files to support their submissions."

I want to make sure I understand this in light of what you say later in your reply.  Are you saying I can upload a pdf file to support a cast list contribution, but not to support a release date contribution?  And if so, why the distinction?  If you have the technology to accept the one, why not the other?

Employee

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2.6K Messages

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27K Points

Hi @old_film_lover,

The file upload function was applied to data types such as credits, birth dates, birth names and genders where the evidence provided could be sensitive and couldn't be uploaded publicly. Release date information is neither private nor sensitive information and therefore can be sourced publicly through website URL links and thus did not require the file upload functionality.

However, I can pass on your comments to the relevant team for discussion on considering expanding the file upload function to more data types.

I hope this helps!

890 Messages

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17.3K Points

@old_film_lover​ Yes, I've used it for years. It's a very well known site and safer than any social media site. You'll have no worries there at all, pretty much as safe as making an IMDb account.