bradley_kent's profile

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Friday, October 11th, 2024 3:10 PM

No Status

What is wrong with the Genre list manager?

Again and again, accurate, objective genres are being denied.  This is an ongoing problem that has not been resolved. Among problems is the denial of Comedy and Drama for Horror films. For example, there is a great difference between “The Fearless Vampire Killers” (Horror/Comedy) and Rosemary’s Baby (Horror/Drama),  Recently, the same situation was with Westerns.  Blazing Saddles (Western/Comedy) is very different from Hugh Noon (Western/Drama), but that was apparently resolved.

There also seems to be a bias against adding genres for popular, well known films, while lesser known titles can have 6,7, 8 genres. 

Again, it’s all abut being objective and factual.

Here are examples of rejections for other valid genres -- rejections that defy logic:

241010-055103-378000
Track Contribution
2024-10-10 05:51:03 It Ain't Easy (1972)
Genres -  2 items added
241010-054437-757000
Track Contribution
2024-10-10 05:44:37 The Rich Man's Wife (1996)
Genres -  2 items added
241010-053854-655000
Track Contribution
2024-10-10 05:38:54 The Frighteners (1996)
Genres -  3 items added
241010-052739-660000
Track Contribution
2024-10-10 05:27:39 From Hell (2001)
Genres -  1 item added
241010-052150-926000
Track Contribution
2024-10-10 05:21:50 Lovers and Other Strangers (1970)
Genres -  2 items added
241010-051734-771000
Track Contribution
2024-10-10 05:17:34 Pharaoh's Army (1995)
Genres -  2 items added
241010-051138-777000
Track Contribution
2024-10-10 05:11:38 Before Sunrise (1995)
Genres -  1 item added
241010-050631-602000
Track Contribution
2024-10-10 05:06:31 Mother! (2017)

Employee

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2 months ago

Hi @bradley_kent -

As mentioned in other occasions, evidence has to be provided with submissions (links to official sites for example). You should have no issues if evidence is provided.

Thanks!

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23.5K Points

I’ve provided “evidence” on the eight contributions cited above.  Do you want more?

(User and external reviews are also often “evidence.”  Besides, I’ve also seen all of these titles, but I guess that doesn’t matter.  I take my contributions quite seriously, and always stress objective, personally detached observation.  I view myself as a reporter, not an opinionated editorial writer.)

(edited)

Employee

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@bradley_kent​ Hi!


There is no links of evidence on any of the submissions, we appreciate that you take your contributions seriously but our editors sometimes need links to verify the submissions.

Thanks!

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23.5K Points

There IS evidence. Just use the google search, then enter title and year and (genres). There are NO urls for these searches.  Do you only consider “official sites”?  If so, that is hard to believe since most titles do not have “official sites.”  As I suggested earlier, using the google search is a great way to verify genres, and IMDb should incorporate it for genre verification.

(edited)

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How about a response and a consideration of my suggestion?

 

I truly appreciate and respect IMDb.  But my goal, as I have said many times, is to help make IMDb more accurate than it already is.

When it comes to genres, I find myself wondering if I should even contribute additions, corrections or deletions.

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23.5K Points

2 months ago

Again and again, accurate, objective, truthful genres are being denied.  This is an ongoing problem that has not been resolved. Among problems is the denial of Comedy and Drama for Horror films. For example, there is a great difference between “The Fearless Vampire Killers” (Horror/Comedy) and Rosemary’s Baby (Horror/Drama),  Recently, the same situation was with Westerns.  Blazing Saddles (Western/Comedy) is very different from Hugh Noon (Western/Drama), but that was apparently resolved.

There also seems to be a bias against adding genres for popular, well known films, while lesser known titles can have 6,7, 8 genres. 

Again, it’s all abut being factual.

Here are examples of rejections for other valid genres -- rejections that defy logic:

241010-055103-378000
Track Contribution
2024-10-10 05:51:03 It Ain't Easy (1972)
Genres -  2 items added
241010-054437-757000
Track Contribution
2024-10-10 05:44:37 The Rich Man's Wife (1996)
Genres -  2 items added
241010-053854-655000
Track Contribution
2024-10-10 05:38:54 The Frighteners (1996)
Genres -  3 items added
241010-052739-660000
Track Contribution
2024-10-10 05:27:39 From Hell (2001)
Genres -  1 item added
241010-052150-926000
Track Contribution
2024-10-10 05:21:50 Lovers and Other Strangers (1970)
Genres -  2 items added
241010-051734-771000
Track Contribution
2024-10-10 05:17:34 Pharaoh's Army (1995)
Genres -  2 items added
241010-051138-777000
Track Contribution
2024-10-10 05:11:38 Before Sunrise (1995)
Genres -  1 item added
241010-050631-602000
Track Contribution
2024-10-10 05:06:31 Mother! (2017)
Note: This comment was created from a merged conversation originally titled Accurate, objective, truthful genres are not being accepted

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23.5K Points

May I suggest that IMDb also use Google search for (title) (year) genres as a verification source.

Employee

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1 month ago

Hi @bradley_kent -

I understand the frustration of seeing repeated declined statuses on these genre submissions.  We truly appreciate your efforts and share your passion for accuracy.

Concerning these titles you mentioned, I can see that they were not approved because our staff was unable to verify that the genres are applicable to these titles, as per our Genre definitions.  If you disagree with the decision, you are welcome to resubmit the genre with supporting evidence - with that being said, we would need substantial evidence to verify the genre information, for example: a link to a prominent event announcement where the title won an award under that genre category, reputable industry media articles that discuss the title genre, any marketing material from the distributor or network that helps confirm the genre, critical reviews from reputable sources that discuss the genre, etc.

Just to note, we cannot accept suggestions to search Google as evidence, because even if Google displays results for a title or provides a summary for that title that includes a genre, this isn't verifiable.

I hope this helps to better clarify how we process these submissions and what we are seeking for evidence.

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I often cite “reputable” critic reviews, often from Variety and TIme Out and other ‘reliable” reviews, including IMDb’s own external reviews.  (Are they not reliable?) What I was suggesting is that IMDb also use google search for verification.  It is VERY reliable and as easy (if not easier) to access than any of the methods cited above.  It would make your job less time consuming as a corroborating methodology.  (Try it, and you will see.)

Winning awards under a genre designation is very rare. (The Golden Globes?  They are often not reliable.) Most titles DO NOT win awards, anyway.

Can you give me an example of "industry media article” and “marketing materials."  They are usually intended to PROMOTE a title, and may not reflect the reality.  Also, such sources are not available for less known and older titles.

There is tremendous inconsistency between what the Genre list manager accepts, or does not.  I have noticed that genres are much more readily accepted for less well known titles.  My suggestion is that google searches would be easier, less time consuming and a much more accurate representation of the objective reality.

(edited)

Champion

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14.4K Messages

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According to Google, Jaws is comedy and science fiction among others, 12 Angry Men is a police procedural, and Schindler's List is an action movie.

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I am NOT suggesting that IMDb use ALL the genres listed on Google search.  In fact, some of Google’s listings are what IMDb considers a subgenre.

What I am suggesting is that IMDb could use the Google search as an additional verifying source, and then make a decision whether to accept an addition, deletion or correction.

Could IMDb possibly reveal the specific verifying sources for just one title from before 1990? This would be a help and could be a good guideline. Now, it just seems to be "at the whim" of the genre list manager, often defying the observable facts and often very inconsistent.

How can a title have a subgenre that incudes a genre, and not have that genres, also.  How, for example, can a title have satire-comedy as a subgenre, and not have Comedy as a genre,  Makes no sense.

Titles very rarely have just one genre, anyway.  All fictional (and, perhaps non-fictional) titles should probably have Drama, or Comedy, or both, as genres.  There are only two ways to create art: one, to adhere to and obey classical dictums, or, two, to try to create something different.  Combining genres is the way an artist attempts to create something unique and new and personal.  Purists may think otherwise.

(edited)

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1 month ago

What SPECIFIC research tools does the Keyword List Manager ACTUALLY use to corroborate whether a contributed genre is FACTUAL or not?

(edited)

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How about a response?

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Sure would like to get a response to this.  Such a iist would be beneficial to both the contributor and the Genre List Manager.

Apparently, IMDb does not consider the writers at Variety and Time Out and The Hollywood Reporter and The New York Times and The Guardian and film catalogues and other sources as accurate identifiers of genres.

Maybe IMDb needs to revise its genre definitions so they represent reality.

(edited)

Champion

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I doubt they can provide a list; they have already given you examples. If edits have been declined where you did include links to media like the ones you mention here, and if you do think the edits follow IMDb's genre definitions, then it would make sense to post about those submissions in this forum.

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There are quite a few specific examples listed above.

Culled from Michelle’s unspecific comments above, corroborative sources are:

Official sites [Most titles DO NOT HAVE official sites.]

"a link to a prominent event announcement where the title won an award under that genre category” [Most titles DO NOT win awards.]

"reputable industry media articles that discuss the title genre” [This apparently DOES NOT INCLUDE the sources I cited above as they are apparently considered not “REPUTABLE."]

"any marketing material from the distributor or network that helps confirm the genre” [Availability is very limited.]

"critical reviews from reputable sources that discuss the genre” [Again, this apparently DOES NOT INCLUDE the sources I cited above as they are apparently not considered “REPUTABLE."]

Just since September, I have had over 40 genre submissions that were not accepted.  (By the way, others were accepted.) I DID NOT “make up” these genres, but they were from other reputable (?) sources.

The main source should be the title, itself.  I have viewed many of these titles on the net or elsewhere for verification.  (I, on an average, view at lest one title a day, and TCM is often continuously playing in the background!)

P.S.  A year or so ago, Westerns were finally allowed to have Comedy or Drama or both as genres.  This policy needs to be applicable to other genres, like Horror, Sci-Fi, etc.

(edited)

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9 days ago

Among the most inane genre rejections:

Drama for South Pacific (1958)

Drama for To Have and Have Not (1944) and Pitfall (1948) (Most Film Noirs are sure not comedies.)

Drama for From Hell (2001)

War for The Man in the Glass Booth (1975)

Music for Two of a Kind (1983)

Horror for The Maddening (1983)

etc., etc., etc.

I keep thinking of the Golden Globes and the Tony Awards and the Emmy Awards and other awards where titles are generically divided, and wonder if a title would be placed in this division or that division.

(edited)

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Again, how about a response?