Total illogic in category-subgenre-genre-keyword connection

@keyword_expert​ One obvious keyword that should be usable as a subgenre across multiple genres is 'military'; it seems nonsensical that a military drama such as An Officer and a Gentleman or A Few Good Men should be somehow separated from The Caine Mutiny simply because that film is set in wartime, or that military comedies such as M*A*S*H and Stripes should be separated. The problem is that the subgenres, for some reason, must have the genre included within them. Obviously there are a LOT of titles with the military keyword that shouldn't, because more specific keywords such as soldier or u.s.-navy are more appropriate, but in those instances the keyword wouldn't be listed as a subgenre.

@scgary66​ The keyword military (4645 titles) is not accepted as a subgenre keyword on any titles. 

Also, there is no problem with adding the "military" keyword to titles that also have keywords like u.s.-military (452 titles) and u.s.-navy (558 titles) and soldier (7378 titles). I am not following your logic that titles with one of these other keywords can't (or shouldn't) also have the military (4645 titles) keyword. For titles involving the U.S. Navy, all of these keywords are perfectly appropriate, and only by adding all of them is it possible to search for each of them in combination with other keywords, especially since IMDb does not allow "or" searches for multi-keyword combination title searches.

@scgary66​ 

p.s. I don't think "military" should ever be accepted as a subgenre keyword. Just because a title includes a military as a plot point does not mean that the entire title involves the military as a theme. 

There are a few keywords of this nature that could make for good subgenre keywords, like military-film (12 titles), but they haven't been frequently used. Maybe you were thinking of "military-film" instead of "military." 

@keyword_expert​ You miss my point; I know that it's not currently accepted as a subgenre, and that's my complaint - it SHOULD be a subgenre, which would help distinguish titles primarily about the military from those which depict the military only incidentally (and which, IMO, shouldn't have the keyword at all, as I stated, because more specific keywords are available).

As a side note: Can we drop keywords such as 'classic-(or classical-)musical/western/horror/animation', etc.? The designation is entirely subjective, and such keywords are currently attached to titles which no one would regard as classics; in some sense, a few of them may be regarded as being more traditional than classic.

@scgary66​ 

Respectfully, I think you are missing *my* point. Your arguments in favor of making "military" into an accepted subgenre keyword could be applied to the vast majority of keywords. If "military" (as opposed to "military-film") were acceptable as a subgenre keyword, then so should keywords like "religion," "environmental-issue," "murder," "government," "office," "nature," "psychology," "private-detective," and on and on.

The far better solution would be for a way to assign to every keyword, at the time it is applied, whether it involves a major plot theme of the movie. 

I could potentially accept the latter solution, but I would never accept the idea of deeming basic words like "military," "religion," and so on as subgenres (or genres), because they are simply not subgenres or genres in any understanding of what a genre is. 

As for your side note, IMDb staff have officially deemed some of those keywords, like "classical-western," as approved subgenre keywords. In my opinion, that particular keyword should be written like "classic-western" rather than "classical-western" -- that is on my list of things to formally propose one day. Otherwise, I agree that keywords like "classic-animation" are unnecessary, confusing, and potentially subjective. I have complained about the "classical-western" keyword before, in this comment.

@scgary66​ 

(and which, IMO, shouldn't have the keyword at all, as I stated, because more specific keywords are available).

And I have a very different opinion on that, but I won't repeat myself on that point.

@keyword_expert​ You said: "If "military" (as opposed to "military-film") were acceptable as a subgenre keyword, then so should keywords like "religion," "environmental-issue," "murder," "government," "office," "nature," "psychology," "private-detective," and on and on."

To me, that's precisely the point of subgenres (a topic I first suggested about 15 years ago; I have no idea if my original post on the subject exists somewhere in the bowels of this board...); military, religion, government, nature, psychology and detective should ALL be appropriate subgenres (along, with law, medicine, spoof, farce, heist, sword-and-sorcery, world-war-two, etc.), and not limited to existing within one genre. As the keyword guide says:

"For a subgenre to be valid, it should play a meaningful part in the overarching plot/setting/medium of the title."

When I first suggested subdividing keywords, sometime around 2006, I proposed seven categories: Major (or Subgenre), Setting, Character, Advisory, Technical, Intermediate, and Minor (or Miscellaneous). Some of these have been adapted, in varying forms, as keyword categories; the Advisory category is, to some extent, now covered by the parents guide, which didn't exist at the time, though I still think it can be covered by keywords as well. The subgenres, to me, should clearly indicate the main subject/theme of the film. Virtually all titles should have at least one subgenre; most would have two or three, and none would have more than ten (and that would occur only in extremely rare instances).

@scgary66​ 

military, religion, government, nature, psychology and detective should ALL be appropriate subgenres

These are not genres. Nor are they subgenres. At best, they may be themes of particular titles. But they are not genres.

@keyword_expert​ I really fail to see how disaster can be a subgenre (disaster-action), but politics and law cannot (politics-thriller and law-drama, if you like).

@scgary66​ 

In my opinion, a disaster film is a genre in and of itself (not just a subgenre), but it has also been described by some as a subgenre of action films. Note that I am describing disaster films generally in the real world, and not necessarily how IMDb categorizes them.

A disaster film or disaster movie is a film genre that has an impending or ongoing disaster as its subject and primary plot device. Such disasters may include natural disasters, accidents, military/terrorist attacks or global catastrophes such as a pandemic. A subgenre of action films,[1][2] these films usually feature some degree of build-up, the disaster itself, and sometimes the aftermath, usually from the point of view of specific individual characters or their families or portraying the survival tactics of different people.

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disaster_film

My personal preference would be to simply allow the keyword disaster-film (421 titles) as a subgenre keyword, instead of forcing it into the awkward disaster-action (89 titles) keyword or limiting it to always fit under the Action genre. It is possible to have a disaster film that is not also an action film. For example, films dealing with the aftermath of pandemics, like Contagion (2011) are best categorized as disaster films without also being action films.

Back to @bradley_kent's original question, of the 89 titles with the disaster-action keyword, only 79 of them are assigned the Action genre. And perhaps that is as it should be, since as I have said not all disaster films are action films. That point also tends to prove my other point that the keyword really should be "disaster-film" rather than "disaster-action." And this is yet another example of why IMDb should not design the system to pigeonhole each specific subgenre keyword to only fit underneath one specific genre. The real world doesn't work like this, nor should IMDb.

As for "politics" and "law," in the real world those are themes, but not (by themselves) genres or subgenres.

IMDb allows combinations of the "law" and "politics" themes with genres to form specific subgenres. For example, IMDb accepts keywords like legal-drama (177 titles) and political-drama (263 titles) and political-thriller (261 titles) and legal-thriller (46 titles) as subgenre keywords. But there is not really such a genre or subgenre as "law film" or "political film." 

With the caveat that Wikipedia doesn't necessarily control what happens at IMDb, this tabular list of genres, with subgenres also listed in the third column, is helpful to the discussion: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Film_genre#Examples_of_genres_and_subgenres

@bradley_kent​ I already answered your question. Scroll up.

@bradley_kent​ 

How is it possible for a title to have an IMDb "subgenre" as a "keyword" and not also have the "genre" attached to that "subgenre-keyword" as a "genre" for that same title?

One possible answer is that there are keywords listed as subgenres that shouldn't be.

Keywords can be used to describe features that do not amount to a genre. As the genre guidelines say about comedy:

Please submit qualifying keywords to better describe the humor (i.e. spoof, parody, irony, slapstick, satire, dark-comedy, comedic-scene, etc.). If the title does not conform to the 'virtually all scenes' guideline then please do not add the comedy genre; instead, submit the same keyword variations described above to signify the comedic elements of the title.

If you add dark-comedy to a film without the comedy genre, it is not quite clear whether it should be added to the subgenre category or another category.