scgary66's profile

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Wednesday, April 27th, 2022 9:28 PM

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Time for the Archive Footage guide to be updated

With the proliferation (i.e. unrestrained glut) of "archive footage" cast entries for non-fiction TV programs, I think it's time for the current guide on Archive Footage entries to get a major overhaul, as it was likely written to deal primarily with films:

https://help.imdb.com/article/contribution/filmography-credits/archive-footage/G4X4TVH6HXYBW8WM

The current problem is twofold: First, entries are widely submitted as archive footage, when they often should be under Movie Connections; talk shows and newscasts which feature clips from other talk shows end up with a flood of these. (In fact, the current Attributes guide says, "If the footage is from an identified production, then it should instead be described by a "featured in" movie link, and no cast/crew entry should be created for the new title," but this is routinely ignored.) Second, many programs have a large number of archive footage entries added, based on the frequent (and largely trivial) use of readily available file footage. Some suggested guidelines:

Archive footage falls into three basic categories:

1) Pre-existing but previously unreleased footage, such as home movies and videos, outtakes, behind the scenes footage, unreleased films, found footage, etc.

2) Footage from an unidentifiable source, likely released previously, such as newsreel and documentary clips.

3) Clips from previously released sources which do not qualify for IMDb entries (music videos used to fall in this area, but now qualify for entries). Some examples include: television commercials and infomercials; public access TV programs with no significant media coverage; untitled broadcasts of non-fiction events such as routine C-SPAN coverage of Congressional proceedings and hearings; TV programs originating in markets too small to automatically qualify for IMDb, and perhaps programs from foreign sources where their possible listing on IMDb would be difficult to determine; videos posted to social media such as TikTok, Facebook and YouTube; movie trailers (such as Alfred Hitchcock's promotions of his upcoming films).

Clips from TV programs with IMDb pages do not qualify, nor do clips from widely seen broadcasts which may not currently have listings, such as sports events. (Consider an average episode of "SportsCenter", which could generate hundreds of entries for players, referees, coaches, announcers, spectators, etc.)

Because news networks and organizations have an almost unlimited supply of reusable file footage of notable people, archive footage entries should not be submitted for daily newscasts except in extraordinary circumstances (reporting someone's death, perhaps, or a lengthy feature segment about someone); for the same reason, archive footage entries should not be submitted for any non-documentary program broadcast on an all-news channel. As an example, virtually every daily newscast in the United States will likely include some sort of clip of the President of the United States; this potentially generates hundreds of archive footage entries every day. Ideally, contributors would be encouraged to submit program descriptions which cover the topics discussed on a talk show, rather than submitting archive footage entries for people who are mentioned as file footage is shown.

The current "on screen credit" rule can be easily misinterpreted, as it was designed for clips used in movies, and likely referred to opening and end credits; I don't think it was meant to apply to clips from talk show interviews where the person's name happened to be shown onscreen within the clip.

Finally, all archive footage entries MUST include a description of the clip(s) involved; entries of simply "Self (archive footage)" should be rejected. The descriptions should not simply state who the person is (Self - Vice President), but should indicate what the footage is (Self - Attending Super Bowl, Self - Boating Off Catalina, Self - Vacation in France, etc.). In cases where multiple clips are involved (WWII documentaries or music biographies, perhaps), a broader description would be appropriate (Self - .Wartime Footage, Self - Various Performances, etc).

This covers most of the thoughts I've had on this subject for a few years; comments and further suggestions are welcome.

Champion

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14.4K Messages

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329.9K Points

3 years ago

Some of the title eligibility restrictions you mention no longer apply: commercials and online videos can be listed, and the current title guidelines don't seem to make a distinction between TV markets.

The current "on screen credit" rule can be easily misinterpreted, as it was designed for clips used in movies, and likely referred to opening and end credits; I don't think it was meant to apply to clips from talk show interviews where the person's name happened to be shown onscreen within the clip.

I have thought the same, but I wouldn't call it a misinterpretation that the current rule applies to any credited appearance.

I'm afraid setting different rules for different types of title would make the guidelines more complicated.

Personally I don't always see the need for the rule that there can't be a cast credit if the footage can be covered with a movie connection. If what you want to know is the identify of a person on screen, it makes sense to look in the cast list. And the connections page is a list of titles, with names only sometimes included.

(edited)

Champion

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3K Messages

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72.5K Points

@Peter_pbn​ I have a huge problem with a cast listing for something that can be covered with a movie connection. This would lead to any title that features another title having all kinds of credits for the title featured, even if for a few seconds.

150 Messages

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2.1K Points

@Peter_pbn​ Regarding the "on screen credit" rule, I'm making a distinction between a credit (which the guide may intend to mean as the credit crawls) and an identification (which can occur mid-program).

As for online videos, I gather that they can be listed if they receive a lot of media attention, but I don't believe every YouTube video is eligible. (There is a "general public interest" standard in the submission guidelines.)

I'll also add that not everyone who happens to appear on TV is eligible for listing; I don't believe it is IMDb's goal to create a page for everyone whose face has ever appeared on a screen. For example, crime/accident witnesses interviewed on the street on local newscasts aren't eligible, nor are talk show audience members who happen to participate in a show segment (quite often identified only by first name and hometown). (However, if these people have IMDb pages for other work, such appearances can be listed.) Much of this would be part of a deserving separate discussion on Self credits.

(edited)

2.5K Messages

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69.2K Points

3 years ago

If some clip of the talk show, news program etc is used (in a new documentary, for example) AND the person is credited (in a new documentary), I believe that instantly qualifies as an ”archive footage”?