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Friday, February 25th, 2022 2:04 AM

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Should these keywords be merged?

Perhaps some of the following IMDb keywords should be merged. I could use some help from the community with your thoughts.

Should any of these keywords be merged? If so, which ones, and in which direction should they be merged? Should any of these keywords not be merged?

non-linear (171 titles)

non-linear-narrative (82 titles)

nonlinear-time-frame (5 titles)

nonlinear-timeline (1723 titles)

black-and-white-segment (15 titles)

black-and-white-sequences (5 titles)

black-and-white-sequence (396 titles)

black-and-white-film-scenes (4 titles)

black-and-white-scene (1376 titles)

writer-director (423 titles)

written-by-director (4578 titles)

whodunit (522 titles)

whodunnit-mystery (137 titles)
who-done-it (11 titles)

mystery-murderer (6 titles)

murder-mystery (679 titles)

young-adults (9264 titles)

young-adult (228 titles)

psychiatric-hospital (329 titles)

psychiatric-institution (27 titles)

psychiatric-institute (3 titles)

insane-asylum (344 titles)

mental-hospital (706 titles)

mental-asylum (216 titles)

mental-institution (724 titles)

attorney (1079 titles)

lawyer (5438 titles)

barrister (148 titles)

washroom (162 titles)

restroom (348 titles)

bathroom (2365 titles)

lp-record (76 titles)

lp-recording (12 titles)

lp-record-album (31 titles)

album-recording (11 titles)

record-album (92 titles)

garbage (332 titles)

rubbish (48 titles)

trash (797 titles)

trash-can (86 titles)

trash-bin (57 titles)

rubbish-bin (14 titles)

garbage-bin (62 titles)

garbage-can (279 titles)

Accepted Solution

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2 years ago

whodunnit-mystery is from IMDb's list of subgenres. It seems like IMDb haven't merged other keywords with those preferred keywords, perhaps in order to keep them free of bad data. But I guess it's for them to say. I think murder-mystery can probably coexist.

Whodunnit with double n seems to be mostly a British spelling; perhaps IMDb will want to change it.

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@Peter_pbn​ 

whodunnit-mystery is from IMDb's list of subgenres.

Good point.

https://help.imdb.com/article/contribution/titles/keywords/GXQ22G5Y72TH8MJ5?ref_=helpms_helpart_inline#special

As far as I can tell, many if not all of these "subgenre" keywords were user-created in the first place. In other words, IMDb staff simply compiled their list of "acceptable" subgenre keywords from the existing keywords, rather than creating the list from scratch. 

And it seems fairly obvious to me that staff compiled the list by searching for the keywords using the broad genre words as bases for their search. For example, they found "whodunnit-mystery" by searching for "-mystery" keywords. But because they compiled their list in this way, they made some mistakes, like including "giallo-thriller" but not "giallo" itself. 

All that is to say that the list of "acceptable" subgenre keywords is not sacrosanct by any means. 

(edited)

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@Peter_pbn​ p.s. Interesting that the list of "acceptable" subgenre keywords does not include "murder-mystery." 

Aren't "whodunit" and "murder-mystery" the same thing?

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I think they created many of the listed keywords from scratch.

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@Peter_pbn​ Which ones, for example?

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Most obviously things like winter-sports-sport or costume-drama-history, which you would only think of if you had a specific wish to create keywords that include genre labels.

Michelle said, "these keywords have been created to drive new search experiences to aid title discovery for users" (my thread)

(edited)

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@Peter_pbn​ Those are good examples, and I think you are right (about some of the subgenre keywords).

The keyword page for "I, Tonya" shows that "winter-sports-sport," "domestic-drama," "docudrama-drama" (a really stupid keyword) and "timeframe-21st-century" were all added together, and at some point fairly recently. 

(edited)

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Speaking of "docudrama-drama," seems like all these keywords should simply be merged into "docudrama."

docudrama (1167 titles)
docudrama-drama (75 titles)
drama-documentary (14 titles)
documentary-drama-hybrid (2 titles)
drama-documentary-hybrid (1 title)

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When I think of "whodunit", I do expectedly associate it with murder mystery, but I'm not sure that a mystery of non-homicidal violations couldn't also be a whodunit. I mean, we could easily have a story about townsfolk or even housemates trying to identify a serial rapist, a serial arsonist, a serial burglar, a serial vandal or so, who strikes again every so often and yet rationally must belong to an established suspect pool.

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The blend of drama and documentary can and perhaps ought to be narrowed down to two keywords like "docudrama" (for dramatization of real events) and "dramatic-documentary" (for captured events compiled in such a way as to present or feel like a dramatic story).

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@jeorj_euler​ So, in those cases, you could have "whodunit" as a keyword without "murder"as a keyword and possibly without Mystery as a genre.

And, "docudrama" would be appropriate for the first situation, but, in the second, Drama and Documentary should both be genres.

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@jeorj_euler​ I wondered about whether there could be a "whodunit" involving a crime other than murder, so I checked the dictionary definition, which specifically identifies murder in the first part of the definition, but then also includes "detective story." 

a narrative dealing with a murder or a series of murders and the detection of the criminal; detective story.

So I guess technically "whodunit" could be something different from a "murder mystery," but it would seem those would be rare.

The Wikipedia entry for "Whodunit" also focuses on murder mysteries, while leaving the door open to other crimes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whodunit

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2 years ago

Many of these keywords look mergeable and I wouldn't object to merging them. But there is at least one which I don't think should be merged:

attorney (1079 titles)

lawyer (5438 titles)

barrister (148 titles)

"Attorney" and "lawyer" could be merged, but neither should be merged with "barrister". A barrister is a specific type of lawyer, one who is authorized to appear in court and argue before a judge, especially in countries like England where the legal profession is divided between barristers and "solicitors" (who traditionally did not appear in court). The distinction between barristers and solicitors does not apply in the U.S., but in some other countries it does.

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@gromit82​ Good point. Thank you.

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An attorney at law is a licensed lawyer and bar association member. A lawyer is a person extremely learned in courtroom procedures, legal processes and the law. The nouns are not always precisely interchangeable, but of course storytellers and their audiences probably won't be aware of the nuances, on top of the fact of the matter of the modern connotation of what it means to be a lawyer, as in an advocate of an adjudicating party, not the judge or somebody belonging to one of the other courthouse professions.

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2 years ago

One issue with the "trash" keyword: someone has been using the "trash" keyword, along with "trash-movie," to indicate movies that they think are "trash." 

I doubt that "trash movie" is an actual film genre. And even if it is, the keyword "trash" shouldn't be used for this -- the keyword "trash-movie" would suffice. 

Given the inappropriate and excessive use of the keyword "trash" in this context, it might make more sense to merge the keyword "garbage" in the direction of "trash," rather than the other way around.

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2 years ago

A "murder-mystery" should have "murder" as a keyword and Mystery as a genre.

A "whodunit-mystery" should have "whodunit" as a keyword and Mystery as a genre.

And, yes, "attorney" and "lawyer" are two distinct kinds of legal representation.  Check the dialogue, narration and text on screen to see which is appropriate.

(edited)

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@bradley_kent​ Of course, there would also be no problem with using "whodunit" and "murder-mystery" on the same title, given that they are slightly different concepts, with "whodunit" apparently being broader than the other keyword.

Regarding "attorney" and "lawyer," although these may be technically different words, I strongly doubt that those differences have been observed by IMDb contributors.

This source explains that "all attorneys are lawyers, but not all lawyers are attorneys."  https://www.jdsupra.com/legalnews/ever-wonder-about-the-difference-5368106/

Given that, it might make sense to merge the keywords in favor of "lawyer," even if these are two slightly different words. "Lawyer" is also far more popular as a keyword on IMDb. 

I think I will leave these particular keywords alone for now, though. Thanks for the illuminating discussion. 

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Good "give-and-take" discussion.  Reminds me of the early days of IMDb when when we were trying to create and shape this thing!

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Often it is also helpful to consider how characters, outside of joke and lies, are identified or which salutations attributed to them in a given movie itself. I do notice that "attorney" is not only a person (having the corresponding occupation) but also a salutation, whereas "lawyer" is really mainly just a person (having the corresponding occupation).

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This has been discussed on this board previously.  They should NOT be merged.

"It is helpful to remember that all attorneys are lawyers, but not all lawyers are attorneys. The major difference is that attorneys can represent clients in court and other legal proceedings, while lawyers cannot."

I go by the dialogue and the printed text for deciding which keyword should be used.