hurdy_gurdy_man's profile

59 Messages

 • 

1.4K Points

Thursday, October 13th, 2022 6:39 AM

Closed

Solved

Should the keyword "bare-chested-male-bondage" be kept or deleted?

The keyword looks as if designed for people into this specific fetish :-)

What do others think?

2.7K Messages

 • 

47K Points

2 years ago

I personally hate this keyword, because it implies either S&M practices or slavery, and yet it is used for neither.

With that said, my feeling is that this keyword should not be deleted, but rather renamed as "bound-bare-chested-male." That solves the S&M/slavery misinterpretation problem I mentioned.

bare-chested-male-bondage (1625 titles)  -->  bound-bare-chested-male

With that renaming of the keyword, I would still hate the keyword, but I could live with it.

(edited)

2.7K Messages

 • 

47K Points

2 years ago

@hurdy_gurdy_man 

What do you think of merging the keyword "bare-chested-male-bondage" into "bound-bare-chested-male?"

bare-chested-male-bondage (1625 titles)  -->  bound-bare-chested-male [new keyword]

cc: @abdurahman @scgary66 @bradley_kent @Pencho15 

1.4K Messages

 • 

23.6K Points

2 years ago

Again, and I KNOW there are ALWAYS exceptions, actions are usually preferred over people, so I think "bare-chested-male-bondage" is the better keyword.  

"bound-bare-chested-male" also uses "male" as a noun instead of "man."  "bound-bare-chested-man"?  Yes, "bare-chested-male-bondage" is the best keyword for this, be it slavery. s&m, torture, whatever...  

And don't turn the noun "bondage" into the adjective "bound."

(edited)

2.7K Messages

 • 

47K Points

@bradley_kent​ 

People have been using the dumb keyword "bare-chested-male-bondage" for any title that has a male (a man or a boy) tied up with their shirt off. The vast majority of these titles do not include S&M practices or slavery, yet people are causing confusion with this weird and vague keyword.

There are four potential definitions of "bondage" that could apply here, and I think everyone would agree that the vast majority of usage of "bare-chested-male-bondage" on IMDb involves definition #2, yet when the average person encounters this keyword, they assume that it means definition #3:

bond·age 
1. slavery or involuntary servitude; serfdom.
2. the state of being bound by or subjected to some external power or control.
3. the state or practice of being physically restrained, as by being tied up, chained, or put in handcuffs, for sexual gratification.
4. Early Eng. Law. personal subjection to the control of a superior; villeinage.

I agree that generally speaking, people shouldn't use "male" and "female" as nouns, but there can be some exceptions, like for instance contributors (not me!) also use these similar keywords:

bare-chested-male (22144 titles)

bare-chested-male-fighting (245 titles)

hairy-chested-male (651 titles)

male-tied-up (165 titles)

female-tied-up (815 titles)

barefoot-male (2991 titles)

barefoot-female (1712 titles)

female-in-a-shower (498 titles)

male-in-a-shower (757 titles)

female-in-a-bathtub (107 titles)

male-in-a-bathtub (166 titles)

female-removes-her-clothes (717 titles)

male-removes-his-clothes (31 titles)

female-removes-female-clothes (65 titles)

male-removes-female's-clothes (8 titles)

female-removes-male's-clothes (3 titles)

female-removes-her-dress (192 titles)

I'm not intending to suggest these are great keywords, but I understand why they exist.

By analogy, there is nothing wrong with adding all of the keywords "nudity" plus "female-nudity" plus "nude-woman" to the same title. Those three keywords as I have listed them go from more general to more specific, and none of them are duplicates. 

And it would be the same with "bare-chested-male," "bound-bare-chested-male," "male-tied-up", "man-tied-up," and "bare-chested-man." All of these keywords could be added to the same title, because none of them are duplicates, and including all of them facilitates searching for whichever keyword someone wants to search for.

In this sense, a new keyword "bound-bare-chested-male" would be formatted very similar to its most closely related keyword, "bare-chested-male." 

If "bound-bare-chested-male" is not an acceptable keyword, then "bare-chested-male" isn't either.  But as stupid as the keyword "bare-chested-male" is, it is also extremely popular on IMDb, so it should be retained.

I don't like many of the keywords I have listed above. But short of deleting them, there has to be a way to make them acceptable. 

And I just can't get over how weird and borderline inappropriate the keyword "bare-chested-male-bondage" is, and I know I'm not the only one who has noticed. 

Finally, there is no problem with using the adjective "bound" within a keyword. You are mixing up keywords that consist solely of adjectives (which is generally discouraged, with many exceptions) with keywords that include an adjective (which is completely fine). 

(edited)

4 Messages

 • 

292 Points

In English, man can include all mankind. Male is used as a noun and is more specific.

Bound is easily and rather often used as a verb.

"I bound the man to the wall shackles, shirtless and with his arms-tied-overhead."

And, in films, bare-chested-male-bondage is used as a trope, often, and is often intended to be not serious. See MANY episodes of Tarzan, Beastmaster, etc. 

Bare-chested-male-bondage and torture or threatened torture is also a trope that is often used in a not serious way. See Lethal Weapon, Starship Troopers, at least one episode of ANY action/western TV series bath through the fifties.

So, a serious pop culture question might be: "How often were men shown shirtless and in bondage in US TV shows in the various decades from the 50s till today and does that say anything about displays of masculinity in vulnerable situations?" Imdb with the relevant keyword is the ONLY place in the world that question could be easily researched. 

Also, some people are just "interested" in such scenes as representations of torture or bondage. I have often made the argument that directors almost always stage these scenes as fantasy-SM scenes rather than real torture. Real torture is gross and involves permanent damage to bodies, and vomiting and defecating and crying and death and degradation. Film and TV torture almost NEVER does. It is USUALLY a way to present the handsome hero in a vulnerable position that he YET overcomes due to his masculine swagger. In the real world, this is insanity. But this is film and TV we're doing here.

And, P.S., this EXACT thing is widely present in Indian, East Asian, Turkish, Spanish and basically all other film cultures, which you can see just by using this very useful keyword. 

2.7K Messages

 • 

47K Points

2 years ago

Just to prove that not just a few IMDb contributors, but also the Internet at large, is also weirded out and confused by the keyword "bare-chested-male-bondage," here are a few examples collected from some quick Internet searches.

First is this review of Island of Doomed Men (1940):

For instance, all the slaves are kept quite clothed except for a couple of brief whipping scenes, and even then bodies are well covered by setpieces; I mention this only because the IMDb keyword phrase “bare chested male bondage” applied to this film seems a bit overzealous. Danel doesn’t whip the men himself or linger to watch, and with the exception of one up-and-down look during some rather dull dialogue, there is just no there there.

Second is this tweet pointing out that the Christian movie The Gospel of John (2003) includes "bare-chested-male-bondage" in its keywords.

And here are a few more examples of tweets expressing bewilderment, shock, and amusement over the use of this keyword, with the common theme being that this keyword makes no sense as it is currently being used. 
The last one is written in French. This person basically asks "wtf" about why so many titles on IMDb have both the keywords "stolen-jewelry" and "bare-chested-male-bondage" on the same title.
All of this proves that at a minimum, the keyword "bare-chested-male-bondage" is causing serious confusion on IMDb. It should either be deleted or changed to a keyword that causes less confusion. And if the latter, the most appropriate keyword to change it to would be "bound-bare-chested-male," because that keyword is closely related to the silly but very popular keyword "bare-chested-male."  I rest my case.

(edited)

10.7K Messages

 • 

225.4K Points

Sometimes unwisely people treat IMDb, Wikipedia or things like them as the gospel of truth.

2.7K Messages

 • 

47K Points

@jeorj_euler​ 

This is true. A good example of that is when people complain on social media about the keywords on IMDb titles and assume that IMDb the company chose the keywords, not realizing that the keywords are user-generated (sometimes with trolling or stupidity involved).

2.7K Messages

 • 

47K Points

2 years ago

BTW, I believe it was @abdurahman who recently suggested that "bare-chested-male" should be converted to "male-topless-nudity." I am not in favor of that change but I did want to mention it here because it seems relevant as long as we are discussing the dumb but popular keyword "bare-chested-male" (closely related to "bare-chested-male-bondage" or whatever that keyword is changed to). 

2.7K Messages

 • 

47K Points

2 years ago

I have included the bare-chested-male-bondage keyword, to be merged into a new "bound-bare-chested-male" keyword, in this new list of keyword mergers here:

Duplicate Keywords - List #57 (Proposals for Permanent Merger and Auto-Conversion) (nudity keywords pt. 3)

I have also extended the comment period on that list to 28 days, because things tend to slow down at the end of the year and I already have quite a few other lists pending. 

4 Messages

 • 

292 Points

10 months ago

I kind of originated the keyword 20 years ago. I tried to use the term "shirtless-male-bondage" but the gods of imdb at the time decided all key words including shirtless had to be changed to "bare-chested." That was dumb then and is dumb now. "Shirtless" in English and other languages is the most often term used when referring to actors or other famous people. Do a search. In Spanish and Portuguese, "descamisado" or "sin camisa," "sem camisa" or "descamisado." (Note these three are the 2,3, and 6th most spoken native languages in the world." While French and German and other languages use a more direct translation of bare-chest, like "torse nu" or "nacktoben," in English, "shirtless" is the better term and is translated by google to the appropriate form for most languages. 

As to "bondage," in mainstream casual American English, "bondage" is mostly used to describe erotic bondage, as in, "I'm into bondage." In casual English, people often say SM&BD or SMBD. The B stands for "bondage."

In formal writing, in English, without context, bondage would usually mean slavery/servitude  or metaphorical slavery, as in "Many modern people remain in bondage to Victorian values." But, even in formal English, bondage is often used to denote erotic bondage.

Keywords are specific bullet point concepts that might be of interest. As to 'bare-chested-male-bondage," it is obviously of interest to some people.

Keywords do not necessarily imply anything more than once scene being relevant to the keyword.

"cigarette-smoking" for example is attached to 13,808 titles.

As to, is it a fetish thing, well, yes, for many people, as is smoking cigarettes.

But, it is not intended to offend anyone, even when referring to FICTIONAL depictions of worshipped deities, like Jesus or John Galt.

Thinking about all this, I wish "bare-chested" would be replaced EVERYWHERE it exists with "shirtless," because that is FAR MORE used in media, including the web, to describe actors who are shirtless. Try a google search. The entire keyword function should also allow for defined synonyms, and these two words are exactly equal 99.5% of the time, so should be indicated as synonyms.

As to objections to the word bondage...well, tied-up implies ropes, maybe bound is better. AGAIN, this is all about PRETEND. Even historical films. So, considering all the above, maybe.

shirtless-actor-bound, or if actor/actress is sexist

shirtless-man-bound or

shirtless-male-bound or

shirtless-male-actor-bound.

In spoken American English, "male" can be a a noun synonym for "man." It is perhaps more specific, as man, in English, can include all mankind, not just male people.

So, if I were in charge, I'd pick one of the last two.

Furthermore, I would ELIMINATE selecting categories for keywords. Keywords, but their nature, just indicate that the concept has SOMETHING to do with the film. So, while Italy might be the filming location of a Western, or might be the setting of a movie filmed somewhere else, or even a theme in a film, it doesn't really matter. That's why we can connect different keywords in a search or in the keyword itself. So, one film might have the keywords: Italy, set-in-Italy, Italian-director, Italian-novel, travelling-in-Italy, filmed-in-Spain. These don't need further categories.

Thanks for reading this far.