jeffrey_gold's profile

32 Messages

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772 Points

Friday, June 6th, 2014 10:06 PM

Closed

No accountability or transparency at IMDb. Shame on you!

Ridiculous! Is anyone able to get their info corrected or added to their personal pages? IMDb appears to lock us into what they selectively want or what other people added. I have multiple awards and recognitions and provided all the documentation for them and the faceless black box provides absolutely no reasons as to why they reject certain information. I can't even get the biography corrected. No transparency whatsoever. No accountability. Time for a lawyer?

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929 Messages

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39.3K Points

10 years ago

Jeffrey,
Do you have the submission numbers for the data you submitted?
If you are logged in to the IMDb account to submitted this data with, you can find the reference numbers here: www.imdb.com/updates/history

thanks,

faceless black bob



32 Messages

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772 Points

10 years ago

All of them—the entire list. Too many! I don't add invalid information. I don't have time to do everyone else's job or do mine twice.

Jeffrey Gold

929 Messages

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39.3K Points

And you can't copy/paste the details here so that others can do it for you?

32 Messages

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772 Points

Sure can. Sure will take a lot of extra time to do it AGAIN...to sift through the emails instead of using the list that IMDb used to have.

IMDb update receipt #130802-184834-966000 (we were nominated and we won; I thought I made this very clear with two separate submissions). Here was a reminder: IMDb update receipt #130430-182530-241000. Here's the first attempt: IMDb update receipt #130423-045019-010000

IMDb update receipt #130515-050318-446000 (biography)

IMDb update receipt #130203-112505-161000

IMDb update receipt #121207-220942-452000

And, BTW, I have never been known as AKA Blackeley Hudson. I have spent ***YEARS*** trying to get that corrected. I played a character named Blackeley Hudson. Unbelievable. 

This is for starters.

Jeffrey Gold

929 Messages

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39.3K Points

Jeffrey I'm afraid I cannot do anything with the ref but hopefully staff will comment, add they have access.

In relation to the Blackeley Hudson thing, what have you been doing for years to try to fox that? I think I can fix that but don't want to waste time if you've tried the same thing already. So what did you try?

Related question, in Abby Singer did you appear as yourself or play a character called Blackeley Hudson?

32 Messages

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772 Points

Tried to fix it the old fashioned way...update it with remarks, point at the character name in the film...you know, reasonable things that can be explained to a person in the street—except they would "get it.".

I played a character named Blackeley Hudson. If I played myself, there would have been no AKA. Using IMDb logic, perhaps I need to change my name to Blackeley Hudson, so that my AKA would be my actual name.

JG

929 Messages

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39.3K Points

If you were trying to update your name page then you were doing it wrong, your Abby Singer credit is the root, it says you played yourself but were credited under the character name, so this is where the change is needed.

Unfortunately someone had verified the cast list, so it is locked for editing, can someone here tell me how to unverify it so to make this change?

For the awards, can you copy/paste the actual data? It will all be on the link I gave you, no reason to dog through emails...

32 Messages

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772 Points

You want me to paste all the awards? They are all located on LinkedIn: 

32 Messages

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772 Points

Not sure what is not working with your link. I'm in my account, but all I get is:

Update HistoryLoad Previous Update

Reference: ____________ [LOAD]

No previous updates found

Not sure why all these references I found in my email are not in the list I used to see on IMDb.

JG

Champion

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4.6K Messages

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236.3K Points

Are you logged in exactly as you did when you submitted the requests? If you submitted while logged in via IMDb, then looked for them while logged in via Facebook, for example, you would not see them. This is usually the reason people don't see lists, ratings, data submission history, etc.

Champion

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4.6K Messages

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236.3K Points

Re: " You want me to paste all the awards? They are all located on LinkedIn:"

Well, if you're not willing to take a second or two to copy/paste it, do you think someone is going to care more and do it for you? You might want to skip the histrionics and give up helpful information to help others help you.

Just a suggestion...

32 Messages

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772 Points

Good point. I'm logged via Google (which I did not request, but since it was between that option or Facebook, I took the simpler route).

Not willing? You mean to tell me you will guarantee their inclusion if I paste them here? Why am I pasting them here? Do you work for IMDb and you're going to fix this once and for all?

Top 20% - 2013 Academy Nicholl Screenwriting Fellowship Competition
Finalist - 2013 Sundance Institute/Alfred P. Sloan Foundation Screenwriting Fellowship Competition
Finalist - 2013 World Series of Screenwriting competition (Top 10 Historical/Biographical)
Quarter-Finalist - 2013 Final Draft Big Break Screenwriting Contest
Semi-Finalist (Top 30) - 2013 Screenwriting Goldmine Awards/International Scriptwriting Contest (UK)
Finalist - 2013 Woods Hole Film Festival Screenplay Competition
Winner - Best Screenplay based on a True Story, 2013 Columbia Gorge International Film Festival Screenplay Competition
Winner - 2013 Best of State Gold Medal - Screenwriting
Finalist - 2013 Write Brothers Screenplay Competition
Finalist - 2013 Canada International Film Festival Screenplay Competition (Vancouver)
Winner - 2012 SLFS/USP Fellowship (sponsored by the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences)
Winner (2nd Place) - 2012 StoryPros International Screenplay Contest
Top Ten Semi-Finalist - 2012 New Hampshire Film Festival Screenwriting Competition
Semi-Finalist - 2012 New York Screenplay Contest
Quarter-Finalist - 2012 Final Draft Big Break Screenwriting Contest
Second Rounder - 2012 Austin Film Festival Screenwriting Competition
Second Round - 2102 Cinequest Film Festival Screenwriting Competition
Winner - 2012 Best of State Gold Medal - Screenwriting
Finalist - 2006 Sundance Institute/Alfred P. Sloan Foundation Screenwriting Fellowship Competition
Winner - 2005 Best of State - Screenwriting

Winner - 2013 Gold Remi Award, 46th Annual Worldfest-Houston International Film Festival (Producer)
Winner - Feature Documentary (International) - 2009 Toronto Independent Film Festival (Executive Producer)
Winner - 2009 Moab Film Festival (Executive Producer)
Winner - Feature Documentary (International) - 2009 London Independent Film Festival (Executive Producer)
Winner - Director's Choice: Gold Medal for Excellence - 2009 Park City Film Music Festival (Executive Producer)
Winner - Independent Spirit Award - 2005 MassBay Film Festival (Associate Producer)
Invited Participant - 19th Annual Sundance Institute (2004) Independent Producers Conference (Producer)
Winner - Jury Choice: Gold Medal for Excellence - 2004 Park City Film Music Festival (Associate Producer)
Winner - Fleur de Lis - Best Feature Film - 2003 New Orleans Media Experience (Associate Producer)
Winner - Fleur de Lis - Best Independent Film - 2003 New Orleans Media Experience (Associate Producer)

Winner - 2013 Best of State Gold Medal - Original Music Composition (Composer)
Winner - 2012 Best of State Gold Medal - Original Music Composition (Composer)
Winner - Silver Medal for Excellence - 2011 Park City Film Music Festival (Composer)
Winner - Feature Documentary (International) - 2009 Toronto Independent Film Festival (Music Supervisor)
Winner - Feature Documentary (International) - 2009 London Independent Film Festival (Music Supervisor)
Winner - Director's Choice: Gold Medal for Excellence - 2009 Park City Film Music Festival (Music Supervisor)
Winner - 2006 Best of State - Original Music Composition (Composer)
Winner - Independent Spirit Award - 2005 MassBay Film Festival (Composer)
Invited Participant - 19th Annual Sundance Institute Independent Producers Conference (2004) (Composer/Producer)
Invited Participant - 3rd Annual Sundance Institute Theatre Program/Johnny Mercer Foundation Master Class (2004) (Composer)
Winner - Jury Choice: Gold Medal for Excellence - 2004 Park City Film Music Festival (Composer)
Semi-Finalist - Filmscoring Competition - 2004 Moondance International Film Festival (Composer)
Winner - Fleur de Lis - Best Feature Film - 2003 New Orleans Media Experience (Composer)
Winner - Fleur de Lis - Best Independent Film - 2003 New Orleans Media Experience (Composer)

Official Selection - The Voltare Project, Revolution Theatre Company (Chicago)
Official Selection - Hit and Run VII, Stage Left (Spokane)
Official Selection - 2013 "The Puzzle" New Play Festival (NYC)
Official Selection - 2013 Kauai Shorts
Winner - 2013 Best of State Gold Medal - Playwriting
Official Selection - Smith & Kraus Anthology - THE BEST TEN-MINUTE PLAYS 2013
Official Selection - 2013 American Globe Theatre 19th Annual Fifteen Minute Play Festival (NYC)
Winner - 2013 Geneva Theatre Guild Playwright's Play Reading Contest (NY)
Winner - 2013 Northport One-Act Play Festival (NY)
Official Selection - 2013 Manhattan Repertory Theatre Winter One Act Competition (NYC)
Winner - 2012 Asphalt Jungle Shorts (Canada)
Winner - 2012 Best of State Gold Medal - Playwriting
Winner - 2012 Northport One-Act Play Festival (NY)
Winner - 2012 Northport One-Act Play Festival (NY) (double winner)
Semi-Finalist - 2012 Moondance International Film Festival Stageplay Competition
Official Selection - 2012 Between Us Productions 10 Minute Play Festival (NYC)
Official Selection - John Chatterton 2012/2013 Short Play Lab (NYC)
Winner - 2011 8 Tens Playwriting Competition - Eight Tens @ Eight Festival (California)
Semi-Finalist - 2011 Strawberry One-Act Festival Performance Competition (NYC)
Winner - 2011 Strawberry One-Act Festival Playwriting Competition (NYC)
Winner - 2011 Fenton Village Players Playwriting Competition
Winner - 2007 Best of State - Playwriting
Winner - 2006 Best of State - Playwriting
Winner - 2006 Silver Spring One-Act Festival
Winner - 2005 Best of State - Playwriting
Finalist - 2005 Theatre Publicus Prize for Dramatic Literature
Winner - 2005 Moondance International Film Festival Seahorse Award
Finalist - 2004 Moondance International Film Festival Stageplay Competition
Winner - 2004 New Voices/New Words Playwriting Contest
Winner - 2004 Women in Theatre Play Reading Series
Winner - 2003 Experiments In Ink V Playwriting Competition
Winner - 2003 Shorts in Winter Playwriting Festival
Finalist - 2003 Ten by Ten in the Triangle
Winner - 2003 Boca Raton Theatre Guild Short Play Reading Festival
Winner - 2002 CrossCurrents Cultural Five and Dime Playwriting Competition

Champion

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4.6K Messages

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236.3K Points

Those are not the only options. There is, listed first, an option to log in via IMDb. You can enter your user name and IMDb password, activate the drop down menu where your name appears at the top right of the screen and choose "Site Settings" then "View your contributions." If you log in via the other options you create a new account. Anything you've created while logged in to your older account will not be displayed.

I am not an employee of IMDb. Just a regular user.

If you don't want help fixing what needs to be fixed, don't post anything. I assumed fixing the problem would be better than whining about it.

There are plenty of users around that are very experienced at submitting additions and corrections to the database. Maybe one will help you if you can be bothered for a second or two to offer the data.

Good luck.

929 Messages

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39.3K Points

"Not willing? You mean to tell me you will guarantee their inclusion if I paste them here? Why am I pasting them here? Do you work for IMDb and you're going to fix this once and for all?"

My lord the attitude.

Champion

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4.6K Messages

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236.3K Points

Seriously. Completely puzzles me every time.

929 Messages

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39.3K Points

Jeffrey,
It is not my place to say you have been wasting your time...but I'm guessing you have never actually followed the IMDb guide about how to add awards...if I had to guess you have sent IMDb the list as you show here and just expected them to work it out because, well, they owe you....

I say this because many of these awards are not listed on IMDb...and many of them are for plays/theatre...which IMDb does not list...so I'm curious how you managed to submit awards for plays when IMDb doesn't do that and the events don't exist?

Also....the data you provide is not enough....for example, you don't mention what films you actually won as part of...kinda fundamental stuff?

Likewise the aka name thing....you said you "Tried to fix it the old fashioned way...update it with remarks, point at the character name in the film...you know, reasonable things that can be explained to a person in the street"....this may be news to you, but there is a process for data that isn't based on an informal email chat where you explain it to a guy in a call centre....IMDb have very few staff - there is nobody at IMDb who has the job title of "Junior VP of Jeffrey Gold's Data Management"...

929 Messages

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39.3K Points

Okay Jeffrey,
Trying to be helpful here despite it all....but let me show you the impossible task you are giving me, IMDb or whomever you think will just know all the info you are silent on.

So let's take this one:
Finalist - 2013 Woods Hole Film Festival Screenplay Competition

Okay, Woods Hole is in IMDb so good start.
First problem - you do not say which project you were actually a finalist for. So I'll Google to the actual festival page online to find that out....would be easier if you just said since you 100% must know, but for some reason it is left to me to work out.

So I navigate to the 2013 awards for screenwriting page but, it only lists winners and runners-up so don't mention your film...so now I have totally no way of knowing what project this was for...and even if I did, why would IMDb list finalists when even the festival's own website cuts off at 1st and 2nd place?

Let me try one where you won - that is maybe easier...

929 Messages

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39.3K Points

Okay Jeffrey, 30 minutes later...
So let’s try “Winner - Best Screenplay based on a True Story, 2013 Columbia Gorge International Film Festival Screenplay Competition”

Good news is that IMDb lists Columbia Gorge International Film Festival so this is good start.

Okay, so again you don’t tell me what the film is – so I have to work that out myself for some reason even though I bet you could tell me off the top of your head.

So I find some details of the festival via Google and dig down to find something.

I manage to find it listed as being part of the festival and it turns out that the film was Steen’s Folly – information that has taken me 5 minutes when you could have given me that in 5 seconds.

So cool, let’s add it to the IMDb page as a winner!

Now let’s list all the reasons why I cannot do this:

1) Show stopper – Steen’s Folly is not listed on IMDb so I cannot connect to it.

Okay – so I’ll need to add it, I can do that – I do it every day. Of course because you will not do it yourself or tell me any details, now I have to figure out the whole data set myself. A Google on the film title and various other words gives me nothing in terms of data I need to add – no cast, no production company, no release date, no crew...all I can find is references to you, which is a start but not enough. So I’m stuck

The submission as an award needs other info too – but to be fair, all the other info it needs is just the standard stuff that would already be on IMDb – but of course all I know is that you won an award...outside of that I have had to work everything else out for myself, and I cannot work out so much that I can add the film to the database.....

So again, I would love to understand how you were able to submit this to IMDb when the process comes to a dead stop at step one...I’m guess you fired an email at a mailbox with the same demanding tone as you have hear and simply presumed that the system that everyone who IS listed has followed, somehow doesn’t apply to you...

I really want to help Jeffrey but you really are giving me nothing to work with here.

929 Messages

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39.3K Points

Okay Jeffrey, it's still raining!
Let's do this one:
Winner - Director's Choice: Gold Medal for Excellence - 2009 Park City Film Music Festival (Executive Producer)

Park City Film Music Festival is listed on IMDb so we're good to go there.

So again, even though you could easily tell me the name of the project, you decide not to...so i have to work that out myself. So back to Google on your behalf Jeffrey.

I find the official page of the festival and dig back through their record to find historical winners. So now I know that the film you won for was Glitch in the Grid - and good news, it is listed on IMDb!!!

So a simple matter to list you as a winner...but hang on, you're not included in the credits! So now I have to add you to that...which I've done on 140607-101906-702000.

Okay, so let's move on to the award, with all the information I have worked to collect (although you could have just told me) this is pretty easy - although i am wary cause you say you have done this right but been failed by the submission process.

But for me, following the submission guidelines, it works out as per 140607-102438-737000.

929 Messages

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39.3K Points

One more and then hopefully you'll get the point..

Winner - 2009 Moab Film Festival (Executive Producer)

So, you're too busy to tell me the name of the film - pretty much the most fundamental thing you need to know to add to the database. So off i go to Google again.

So I find a few references to a film called Pigweed Philosopher and your name is related and looking on IMDb you are listed as an Ex Prod...ergo this must be the film.

Even better news - the actual award for that actual film at that actual festival is already listed! So really...how have you not been able to add yourself to this next to your colleague Gabriel Lakey?!?!

Okay, despite all your struggles, I have now submitted to include you in that award: 140607-104809-992000

Wow. That was actually easy if it wasn't for the huge amount of work i had to do to figure out all the details which you could have given me in 10 seconds but for some reason refused to help me help you...making a song and dance about even copy/pasting the list of awards...

929 Messages

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39.3K Points

Jeffrey,
Winner - Fleur de Lis - Best Feature Film - 2003 New Orleans Media Experience (Composer)
Winner - Fleur de Lis - Best Independent Film - 2003 New Orleans Media Experience (Composer)

Okay so I still had to Google around to work out what actual film this related to, but good news - these two awards? Already listed on IMDb but not with you included - I would speak to your colleagues about that...

Anyway update 140607-132320-41500 will add you to both of these.

You see how easy this is? IMDb is not a butler waiting for you to ring a bell - it is a database which anyone can submit edits to....the best person to add all these awards is you...you have all the information that (for some reason) you have been refusing to share with us....

Champion

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4.6K Messages

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236.3K Points

Odd. Someone complaining there's no transparency, yet it's like pulling teeth to get a tidbit of information...

929 Messages

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39.3K Points

A delay in the England game due to a storm?

Well shucks, have another one Jeffrey:
Winner - Feature Documentary (International) - 2009 Toronto Independent Film Festival (Executive Producer)
Submission 140607-212256-799000

Of course the usual detective work trying to figure out the basic data which you refuse to share but I got there in the end.

32 Messages

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772 Points

Bob the Moo and BluesMan: the attitude derives from the way I FELT I was treated the moment I posted here. Although, not your intention—and I at first assumed you were IMDB employees—I felt like I was treated like an idiot who did not know how to enter information by nameless IMDb employees. I do know how to enter the information. I appreciate your help (and now that I know you're not IMDb employees). Thank you, both. If you were wondering where the attitude comes from, imagine this: trying to get basic things fixed for YEARS.

@BobTheMoo Thank you for trying to add the award(s).

@BluesMan Thank you. I tried to log into IMDb (I am also a member of IMDbPro), but when I logged into IMDb to access this forum, it only gave me two options: Facebook and Google. I have never seen that login window before.

I tried to add the non-IMDb-festival awards in the Trivia section. Since I earned them and they are still industry-related, and people in the industry heavily consult IMDb, I'd like them to be listed somewhere on my IMDb page. If IMDb actually provided a reason as to why I cannot update my bio, for example, then I could revise my strategy—especially when I am paying for their service (IMDbPro).

Yup, these awards (below) used to be listed under the names of all of the producers—of which I was one.

Winner - Fleur de Lis - Best Feature Film - 2003 New Orleans Media Experience (Composer)
Winner - Fleur de Lis - Best Independent Film - 2003 New Orleans Media Experience (Composer)

I have been completely aware that some film festivals are not listed. (Who decides which and which is not a legitimate festival?) I have been aware of this for probably over 5 years when IMDb announced at some time that they placed the inclusion of new festivals in abeyance.

The references I gave are not the only attempts to add awards won at festivals actually listed by IMDb. Remember, some of these awards go back to 2009. 

Just to be clear: awards won at Film Festivals and Playwriting Awards were going to be listed in the Trivia section–they were not attempted to be added under the Awards section.

We did win the Houston WorldFest. Attempts to get the actual awards, fell on deaf ears at IMDb. 

We are able to add magazine articles and other information, but getting basic awards added (with website links and references) and getting the bio fixed and getting that idiotic AKA removed has been ignored at every turn.

32 Messages

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772 Points

I can offer any data that you need. I was unaware that any of you were able to add data to my page.

Previous requests were for the reference numbers, where I already added the data.

32 Messages

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772 Points

In Abby SInger, I played a character named Blackeley Hudson. This was never entered correctly.

The two New Orleans awards went to the film's producers (of which the director was one), who all used to be listed under the award, but I guess the megalomaniacal director had everyone else removed from it recently (I didn't even notice that; thanks for pointing that out). If New Orleans was giving him the award for best director, they would have given him the best director or best direction award.

Champion

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4.6K Messages

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236.3K Points

Jeffrey,

Thanks for your comments.  I can imagine the frustration.

If you click, on the main site, the link at the top right for "Help" you'll see these helpful links on adding/correcting data.

Adding Data to IMDb


While the system is, indeed, a bit of black box from which credits might come out the other end or the they are just rejected and discarded.  But, keep in mind, if you make a submission and nothing has resulted, you can come here and post the submission ID number (go to your user accounts "Site Preferences" and click the "view your contributions" link) and staff regularly comes by and will check the status and let you know if something needs correcting or if more evidence is needed.  Also, if you've submitted, had it rejected, you can add evidence by adding the submission ID here along with a screen capture of on screen credits or links to documentation, or upload scans of documents explaining the credit. It will be applied to your submission and usually, if it's good enough evidence, will push your submission through. If documents have private personal info not suitable for posting here on a public board, you can add links to where the scans are stored using this direct form http://www.imdb.com/helpdesk/data_verification

As to, "I was unaware that any of you were able to add data to my page"

Any registered user can add/correct data by clicking the "edit page" button located on every name and title page of the database.  That includes yourself.

Also, as to paying for the service, IMDb Pro gets you ability to upload up to 100 pictures, choose one for a head shot, upload a resume page attached to your page and access to industry related data.  It doesn't have anything to do with adding/correcting credits and you'll be treated the same as anyone.  A subscription is not considered when your submissions are accepted or rejected.  Either they qualify for inclusion or they don't.  Listing all your credits and awards and bio and trivia and "other works (which, by the way, can be used also for work related to the business, but not normally accepted to a name page)," and, even a message board on which you can discuss your works with fans of yours....are all provided to/for/by you completely free of charge.

What works best when you need to come here for advice is to just state the facts, give names and titles as they appear on site and use links where you can and leave off all the drama. The more or better information you lead with, the easier it is for folks to see what the problem is and to advise on fixing it. 

The site's goal is to list all the relevant data in a complete and accurate manner and it's best if you remember two things...your Name Page is not yours to mold, it's owned  by the site and is about you but no yours.  And that you and the site are on the same side of the ball.  Their goal is to list it but they need to, to protect you and themselves, make sure it's accurate.  So, the forms can be a little difficult to understand and navigate...but it's that way to get it all in the same form for accurate display on the pages.  If you keep in mind they're trying to do exactly what you're trying to do, they'll be less name-calling and legal threats involved.

If I were in your shoes I'd take a few minutes to read over the Help sections on submitting data and play around with the forms a little to have a better understanding.  Then you're in a better position to either submit on your own or "know the language" enough to ask for help and describe what you've tried or need to try...

I know it's popular among people in your position to say, "then what am I paying you for if I have to do it myself?"...easy answer is, you actually don't pay for it and it's mostly you that is affected.  So, you should be the one most interested in seeing it done right.  And, if bob is going to do it for you, you'll be able to save him a lot of time and effort.  We all kind of pop in here when we're not busy or have a browser tab open while we're doing other work.  We don't intend for helping here to take up our whole day.

Staff does come by now and then, too.  So, I am sure they'd feel a little bit better stepping in and helping you if you're not threatening to sue them (which wouldn't work as they're under no obligation to list anything at all, but do so anyway).

Keep in mind, when you blow off steam on the internet, it's out there permanently.  So, a google search can result in people seeing your "No transparency, no accountability..shame on you" for ever.  You can't unring that bell (and ironically, staff does not remove it because they seek transparency...).  So, it's probably good to think twice before damaging their product by posting that way, and even your own reputation when posting like that under your own name.

As to the log in, I meant on the main site. But, both places have log in options.  This board does not utilize or recognize your log in credentials from the main site, as it's a different site completely.  So, you're offered loggin in without registering by using Facebook log in, or you need to actually register (which is easy and quick).  So what you saw was, log in via these or register. That's one of the problems having a help board outside of the main site (a thing many, many users do not like...but oh well...).

Good luck!


Champion

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1.9K Messages

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92.6K Points

One other note, Jeffery.

IMDb only links the people who are actually credited by an Event, not necessarily the ones who you might expect.

Perhaps the best example of this is the Best Foreign Language Film at the Oscars. Although the Producers pick up the award, officially it is given to the country; therefore there is no link on IMDb to any Name pages, only to the Title page.

32 Messages

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772 Points

Bluesman,

That's exactly how I feel: they've damaged my product by not communicating with me as to what the problem is given the fact that I've given them ample proof for all submitted data. This is the problem with these kinds of 'democratic information' websites—and it allows erroneous or incomplete information to propagate ceaselessly. It can, in extreme cases, border on libel and defamation. (I hope they have E&O.)

Never once was I treated with respect regarding these perennial problems in getting things fixed. It was as if someone was asleep at the wheel; if their customer service was better, perhaps someone would have noticed these attempts and reached out. My fault—of many—is that I expect to be treated the way I would treat a customer. When my simple expectations do not match up with the reality, I get annoyed. Also, I'm not the only one who complains about IMDb; I think you'll find that most independent filmmakers have a gripe with them for similar reasons. Their process is mysterious—and yet an industry relies on it.

Let the record stand of my displeasure. I don't even know how long they have had this forum, because I stepped away from trying to get the info corrected. They didn't have it years ago; if they did, I never saw it advertised. I have NO idea how long they have had getsatisfaction.com as a resource to resolve issues on IMDb; I thought that would be on IMDb. Call me crazy.

I'm not talking about a lawsuit (I don't know why you would assume that; you must live in a very litigious environment), but having my attorney submit information on paper—not electronic form. I can't seem to get it corrected through these deceptively direct channels.

Since IMDb has become a kind of de facto monopolistic reference, they get to decide what to include and not include. Once that control favors some people over others (and they have already done that with film festivals), then it is a biased system designed to serve whomever they choose at whim—especially if the users have no idea what the criteria are (except for some vague generalities) for inclusion or rejection. 

I assure you that the big studios encounter few problems getting their information on the site; surely they don't encounter what we independent filmmakers encounter.

iTunes is the same way. All the big boys get splashy graphics and bios—not so the independent artists. Ask CD Baby. Furthermore, independent, long-tail artists are forced to use aggregators to get their works on these sites—kind of like being forced to buy public car insurance from a privately owned company—while the big labels work with Apple directly.

I don't know the legal territory this fits into, but when something moves from a private, free online public resource to a monopolistic industry reference, the rules of the freedom of private ownership have changed. The legal system may not have caught up to this principle yet, but it will. Another reason to keep a record of this thread. I said it first, and if not first, I said it again.

Thanks for your help.

To paraphrase Pascal when he wrote Fermat: if I had more time, these posts would have been shorter.

JG

32 Messages

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772 Points

FYI: Steen's Folly is not a film. It is a screenplay.

929 Messages

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39.3K Points

"they've damaged my product"
How do you think they did that? Your IMDb page makes you look a lot better than the posts you make here....if anything IMDb should be reported for being part of false advertising!

"I expect to be treated the way I would treat a customer"
For Pro you are a customer but this doesn't extend to the whole website - it is an online database, a record...that is the primary function Jeffrey. A common error is that people talk about their entry in the database as "mine" or "my page" and demand to be given the ability to lock it, delete it etc as if it was their Facebook...it is not.
...and I don't know how you would treat a customer Jeffrey but I hope it is better than you treat friendly strangers who offer your their hand while looking for nothing in return.

"users have no idea what the criteria are (except for some vague generalities) for inclusion or rejection"
Except they are clear - trust me....try spending a week here...endless posts from people who don't realize that 5 clicks would have solved their problem because they don't take the time to read guidance and they assume IMDb has a massive staff that Pro membership gives you access to....

"big studios encounter few problems getting their information on the site"
I'm sure they encounter the same problems but the difference is they have production assistants up the wazoo who add data daily....an indie company doesn't have that...this is why I am energetic about adding short films to the database....because I appreciate the effort to make great shorts and I am happy to help them out.
If the suggestion is that somehow big studios have got a member of IMDb staff working relentlessly just for them, then this is crazy.

Please look at this thread. A young actor, entered twice on IMDb but with no credits...he asked for both pages to be deleted because of the confusion and the appearance of "no work"...I think he really expected that somehow IMDb would spot the ultra-low budget shorts he has directed and just add them....

So, with some information from him, I decided to add some of the titles that don't show up on IMDb...last week he had zero credits...now he has 16...did we pay IMDb? No. Did we pull some strings or call in favors? No. Did we get lucky and find a helpful member of IMDb staff to do it for us? No.
All did was follow the submission guidance, provide the (very basic) information required to prove things exist and viola....

Of course this example is different from yours....this guy knew the system applied to him and he didn't have a victim mentality....

929 Messages

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39.3K Points

"Let the record stand of my displeasure"
Jeffrey,
I think this whole thread is a record of that.

"I don't even know how long they have had this forum, because I stepped away from trying to get the info corrected. They didn't have it years ago; if they did, I never saw it advertised."
The "users helping one another" forum has always existed and it used to be on IMDb...it was clearly marked and clearly linked to at every point of you approaching IMDb for help - another reason why I doubt you followed or read the guidance - it is hard to miss.

"I have NO idea how long they have had getsatisfaction.com as a resource to resolve issues on IMDb; I thought that would be on IMDb"
It was on IMDb and they moved it here....I was against the move but in fairness this site has much more functionality and is better than the old way - plus has a staff member from IMDb who has this site as part of their responsibility.

"Call me crazy"
I've drawn a lot of conclusions from these interactions Jeffrey, but I don't think you're crazy.

Champion

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4.6K Messages

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236.3K Points

As to this board, it's been here for a year and a half. Prior to that it was on site and called "Help." It had been tbere probably for 15 years. There is still a remnent of that board remaining. It was right next to Contributors Help which is also for help submitting data.

As to bringing in an attorney to submit IMDb data...that's a silly idea. Why would being attorney make him/her any good at submitting data and why would you pay for someone to do something completely free of charge?? Why not have him do your grocery shopping when you have problems finding the peaches? I just think that was an extremely odd idea, sorry.

929 Messages

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39.3K Points

10 years ago

Keep in mind, when you blow off steam on the internet, it's out there permanently. So, it's probably good to think twice before damaging........your own reputation when posting like that under your own name.
Jeffrey,
bluesman makes a very good point.

I don't know how others would see it - but for the majority of people, equating a bit of online frustration with violent sexual assault as you have done here, would be seen as incredibly offensive and insensitive.

Another thing of note....I did a Ctrl-F for the word 'sorry'. Do you know how many times you use that word? None, not one time.

Even when you realize we are not staff and we were trying to understand the problem and help you for no personal gain, even then you don't apologize for your attitude...no instead you explain/justify your insults and aggression and continue to rant at IMDb as if they were a set of people making a decision against you...as opposed to a system/process with flaws.

For example, the aka name thing - I see the base problem within minutes and am now working to fix it....it will take time to reach a fix due to the problem, but for sure following the actual process is going to be better than just firing angry updates/messages at a mailbox.....

I'm sure it matters naught to you Jeffrey, but when I see your name in future, I know my first thoughts will be on your opinion of rape, your self-important attitude, your arrogance and frankly your rudeness...


32 Messages

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772 Points

10 years ago

(I surmise that you were unable to counter the irrefutable arguments in my previous posts.) Bob, your very first reply was exceedingly sarcastic. You signed it "faceless black bob," when no sarcasm was meant by my description. You misinterpreted almost everything—either out of ignorance or purposefully—and then attempted to infuriate me further by assuming I did not know how to enter information on IMDb, when clearly all evidence points at the contrary. I will no longer respond to you since you do not have the courage to declare who you are publicly, deciding, instead, to hide behind a pseudonym while trying to goad me into a public showdown. Self-important because I'd like to have information about me to be correct? What exactly is the nature of your precise malfunction? Maybe you haven't accomplished anything in your life, and the only thing you need to correct is your actual life. Get off this board, leave your man cave, step outside, smell the air, look at the clouds, and live a life. I wish you the very best. Cheers, JG (dictated, but not read; BH).

929 Messages

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39.3K Points

I'm sorry for the "faceless bob" joke - it was joke based on the lack of IMDb staffing, I did not mean it as sarcasm against you.

I'm not sure what I misinterpreted - I have asked and searched as I did not know the situation or data....you assumed you were dealing with staff.

Search for "bob the moo" on IMDb for all the information you want on me but does knowing my real name make a difference? I would still have tried to correct the data yesterday even if you had known my real name....the idea of usernames or tags online is not a new concept.

The comments about "go outside", "get a life" are pretty rudimentary online insults - you see and treat people as you wish but thankfully one person's perception doesn't affect another' reality and vice versa. I have no interest in a showdown - I have used freetime to try and help you (and regarding your aka, will continue to do so) but I am not one to stand by and not call you on the BS....I'm not one to politely smile and nod when seeing someone compare bad customer service to being violently and sexually assaulted Jeffrey.

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772 Points

10 years ago

The "faceless" commentary was unwise. I'm actually here to get my information corrected, instead being drawn into a firefight. I thought I was dealing with IMDb employees through this getsatisfaction.com website (which, by the way, invokes the lofty idea of raising company/customer relationships to a higher plane) and not being sidelined to a website of mere equally powerless users. From your queries, I was unable to discern that you needed titles, when what was requested were reference numbers.

How difficult would it be for IMDb to invest in some CRM software allowing employees to reply to users using appropriate canned responses why certain data was denied? Maybe a company like Amazon can afford to buy software like that, as opposed to a small upstart like, say, Google. Who is running this ship? It's not being run very well. I could run it better working for free. If they want better ideas, tell them to call me.

[Not sure why you allude to "violently" and "sexually assaulted." Did that happen to you? I'm very sorry if that it happened to you. Or, is that hyperbole you derived from my accidental choice of emoticon endorsed by IMDb by their utilization of getsatisfaction.com and its narrow choices of emoticons? Another failure of this website (getsatisfaction.com) is the inability to change emoticons without resorting to some labyrinthine pathway—if a method to change it exists at all. I have been unable to change it. Is that my failure? Is it my responsibility to drop everything I'm doing to invest enormous amounts of time to undo something to compensate for inadequate information design (ID) and user experience (UX) by their programmers? Again, if the folks at getsatisfaction.com want to talk to me, they are also welcome to reach out.]

If you draw people into a firefight or a public showdown, please use your real name. I'm using mine. I stand behind everything I've written. 

You don't even know me. People who actually know me would beg to differ. Here, I've been called a gallimaufry of things—everything from arrogant, faceless, unwilling to help, histrionic, to violently and sexually assaulted. Perhaps—but not necessarily worse—people have insinuated things or put words in my mouth.

Something was mentioned about suing (I never said it; I may have mentioned a class action lawsuit for the uncharted legal principle I disclosed in one of my lengthier posts); what I implied was using an attorney to submit my information via snail mail (after YEARS of being unable to correct information electronically). Somehow, and call me crazy for thinking this, but companies appear to pay closer attention to attorneys when they don't pay attention to reasonable users who submit information along with supporting documentation (IMDb doesn't respect independent filmmakers enough to reply with valuable information that could help them, and, in turn, help IMDb). It's amazing that people think one uses attorneys only to sue; it's the very last option, the very worst option, and the most expensive option. How much is it worth to change free (but public) information? Not a lawsuit...I can tell you that. I would take that saved money saved and just create my own movie database.

929 Messages

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39.3K Points

"my accidental choice of emoticon"

Jeffrey,
The word "raped" was not entered due to selection of a limited range of emoticons. It was chosen and entered by you in response to how you were feeling.

I asked for reference numbers as I believed they would tell me what I needed to know. Unfortunately it did not so yes I had to ask for more information - and then took my own initiative to find out the rest.

I have done quite a few submissions on your behalf, Jeffrey. I hope that they are accepted.

It seems important to you to know my real name, here: http://www.imdb.com/find?q=bob+the+moo&s=all

32 Messages

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772 Points

Paul,

You are correct. My error. It did ask me how I felt (I only got to choose the emoticon; my error). The only response at the time, after having to create yet another login account, was precisely that. However, to infer from that I was violently and sexually assaulted ignores the nuances or secondary meanings of the word "raped." It also means "spoiled " and "destroyed."

You did not wait for an answer. After a few back-and-forths, I shut down my computer and returned the next day. That is not withholding information; it is called exhaustion. I was doing this at the tail end of my day—not the beginning. You may be in Ireland or Europe; I'm in LA.

It was only the next day or thereafter that I saw a simple line...easily overlooked...that asked for titles. Again, I was under the impression I was working with IMDb employees who would be able to look up all that previously entered information instead of my having to reconstruct it from previous years.

Thank you for submitting. Perhaps they'll listen to you more than they do to me.

JG

Champion

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4.6K Messages

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236.3K Points

Staff can/does look up old submissions regularly here. They do so by asking you to go getnthe submission ID numbers. Us regular visitors know how it works so we help you by getting the info ready for when staff comes along. In the future, if a submission is rejected (which means it was done wrong or can't be verified, you should post the the ID and let staff check on status, and include subort documents or screen shots of on screen credits to aid in verification. You can also explain what you've done and other users can give advice.

Re: raped

Do you really think normal and sane people use the word as you've described? No. They more likely think you're throwing a hussy fit. As with the lawyer comment...you really think people read that and think you're going to have you lawyer submit data via snail mail? Really? (Staff, by the way, doesn't accept submissions that way). I'd just stop, thank bob and move along. We know a hissy fit when we see one as we see them daily. Your bizarre justifications are not helping anything. Gotta go, this piece of fruit I'm eating is becoming completely raped! And, by the way, my autocorrected changed "raped"...even it didn't believe I was using the word to mean "spoiled."

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772 Points

Thank you.

Re: raped. I am a writer (award-winning). I will use words, including their lesser known meanings. I am not apt to emend [amend] that process any time soon. 

It was the way I was greeted and treated that caused my paroxysms. I was expecting to be contacted by IMDb—not equal users. Bob's snarky initial reply made me assume he was a rude IMDb employee who had replied. (How do I know he is not a troll or an IMDb employee parading as a regular user?) That fueled my long-extant ire. It just takes one false reply to get the whole thing to spiral out of control. It started out sounding informative and helpful, but very quickly descended into a mix of half-informative/half-troll-like behavior—kind of like a nightmarish good cop/bad cop routine enacted by one schizophrenic enforcer.

Introduce yourselves next time. Say, "Bob, here. I am a user, not an IMDb employee. Here is how I can help..."—not engage in some kind of sarcasm and then imply I am an idiot or uncooperative because I could not supply whatever information you needed at the time you wanted it.

I came to this site thinking it was a place to file complaints, not be lectured at by users. After all, IMDb directed me here to "get satisfaction." I can say this, and say this with absolute certainty: I am still not satisfied, and as this draws out longer and longer without an IMDb employee giving me a heads up on what went wrong with these and other updates—and, more importantly, how they can be corrected—my belief that these outstanding issues will be resolved is next to nil.

Hissy fit? Pleeeeeeease. I didn't say anything for YEARS! I call that supreme patience.

Over and out.

Champion

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431 Messages

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26.1K Points

Please note the instructions in the right-hand frame of the Get Satisfaction Home Page.. There, among other things is a statement that "other users" will be providing help and likely faster than employees/official representatives of IMDb. Clearly stated. Also, at the top of Main Page there is a menu bar and a tab marked "About Us" where you will find tabs listing All Users, Champions (Users), and Official IMdb Reps/Employees. Clearly Stated. https://getsatisfaction.com/imdb/deta...

32 Messages

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772 Points

I don't know what it is with the users on this site. I don't have time to spend researching every site. I WAS REDIRECTED FROM THE IMDB SITE, AND MY EXPECTATION WAS THAT I WOULD BE WORKING WITHIN AN OFFICIAL IMDB VENUE TO GET MY IMDB-RELATED ISSUE RESOLVED. Just because you live here and have learned over months the nuances of your world (who is who and what is what), does not means that I am all that interested in the details of your world; I'm only interested in getting the issue resolved by IMDb. Don't have time for yet another set of instructions (yours) projected onto another set of instructions (getsatisfaction.com), when I have already learned the original set of instructions (IMDb). Why would I be clicking on About Us on getsatisfaction.com, when I was originally working inside of IMDb and IMDbPro?

I suggest you all change your tone. The users here appear to want to help, but only on their own terms and not without some underlying nastiness to the helpfulness...there is nearly always information, but not without it being poisoned by some snarky, snide, or cutting remark (including, "Don't you know how to..." I do; a finer reading of what I wrote would indicate to a perspicacious reader that my issue is not with the details of how to submit information on IMDb—but some of their unstated, enigmatic processes or surreptitious policies). My original criticism was of IMDb, but the denizens here took it personally (and now it makes me wonder if you aren't all IMDb trolls). If you want to help, help. If you don't want to help—without lacing your responses with ad hominem attacks or petulance—then please refrain.

Champion

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4.6K Messages

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236.3K Points

oy vey!

Re:  "researching every site"

It's right there on the front page...no one should ever be able to miss it even if they try.  How much "research" does it take to read a paragraph that's in plain view in front of your face?

Re: "poisoned by some snarky, snide, or cutting remark"

Yes, your first post was full of all of that (as were all your subsequent posts). Did you expect people to bake you some cookies, get our your blanky for you and set forth with adding all the information for you when you couldn't even take a second or two to actually post the information for us? It was like pulling teeth to get an ounce of information from you followed by you dumping a huge list of crap, most of which is irrelevant to the site or your page...

You get what you give.

32 Messages

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772 Points

I reiterate: I don't know what it is with the users on this site. I gave at the office—the office of IMDb. You entered and interrupted...so now I'm going to have to put all three of you in the same column as IMDb. [Betcha you never got as much attention in your lives as you did here—by me.]

The next time you want to help, ask the person first and tell them under what conditions you are willing to provide that help. You gave a disturbing, entirely new meaning to the time-worn phrase, "the road to hell is paved with good intentions." (Also, just because you have a pseudonym and appear to be a regular user, doesn't mean that you are not from IMDb.)

Your comment is irrelevant. There is little distinction between screenwriters and tv writers anymore—just writers; and many writers are also playwrights. In short, the work is unarguably related (we writers think so, and WE don't care what YOU think).

I wish you a full and speedy recovery of your malignancy.

Champion

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431 Messages

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26.1K Points

How about this, Mr. Gold, we here all suggest you change your tone. If you want honest help, listen to the responses, if you only want sycophantic response, call your Mom. You say you haven't time to research every site. Really. You didn't have to..we did it for you and provided the answers,. Bob.the.moo not only provided answers, he was kind enough to research your information and do the submissions for you. Were you happy or grateful, No! You responded in an entitled and rude manner as if your wants and needs were far more important than any assistance you might be offered.

Apparently you were never taught, or never learned, that you can spend the time doing something right the first time or spend far more time doing it wrong and complaining about how everyone else has done it wrong and with the wrong attitude, I honestly hope that the information you so desperately wanted added are discarded and not updated. Why would anyone, ever again want to help you do anything. For God's sake I would never wish to work with you on any project.

The title of your initial post was about accountability and responsibility. You've accepted no responsibility for your own actions or lack thereof. You want everyone to "JUMP" when you yell "FROGGY" but why would anyone want to help or assist someone with an attitude such as yours?

Champion

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431 Messages

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26.1K Points

This, Bluesman, is what I was trying to avoid. Damn, I'm stupid.

32 Messages

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772 Points

I am and was grateful for the help, but then the conversation descended into this insanity, as things were wanted within a time frame I could not comply with when I was away from my computer. Things became nastier and nastier with accusations of withholding information...not providing the information.

You were very aware of what my attitude was of my previous interaction with IMDb (or, lack thereof in not knowing what they want, since they don't communicate in their replies). I already know how to put information on IMDb. I already know that certain awards are not listed. I already know that certain film festivals are not listed (but I don't know why or for what reason, but it would be reasonable to expect IMDb would inform users and festivals as to why). I already know how to enter data. I have done it. What I'm unclear about is why awards won at festivals are not entered when they have already listed the data for the nomination. If—and this is a big IF—if IMDb responded in a meaningful way, then users of IMDb could get some kind of inkling into the thinking that went on in the process of not including a win when the nomination is already listed (since both link back to the same damn website).

Again, I thought you were IMDb employees asking me for information IMDb employees would already have access to. I was surprised to discover that mere users of getsatisfaction.com would have access to the information stored behind the IMDb reference numbers. After all, they are my submissions, so why would you have access to private information, and then ask me for those numbers if you are not an IMDb employee trying to fix it? You see, I work in my field, and then go to IMDb to verify if the work is listed or list it myself—I don't spend enormous amounts of time learning the ins and outs of IMDb or their subsidiary "help" site, getsatisfaction.com. I simply do not have the time to learn the rules of your world.

Champion

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4.6K Messages

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236.3K Points

If festivals are missing, as with all data on the site, it means it hasn't been submitted.  So, if you want to list yourself on a show/film/festival/etc. that hasn't been listed yet, find and submit the data.  Any registered user can submit information...that's how it all gets here.

Re:  "withholding information..."

You didn't give any in your original post.  Even staff would have had to know what the hell you were yammering on about.

Then, when asked for info, you said (copied/pasted):

"All of them—the entire list. Too many! I don't add invalid information. I don't have time to do everyone else's job or do mine twice."

Then the info trickled in, though you still complained at having to "help yourself"

So, yes, you were withholding information.

"Sure can. Sure will take a lot of extra time to do it AGAIN"

For not having time to waste on learning something you have wasted enough here with this gibberish.  Do you even believe half of the bull you're peddling?

Who cares if you thought people were staff or not?  Is there any difference if we were all staff?  You still were acting like king of doucheville start to finish (complaining of being raped and threatening to send in a lawyer is anything anyone needs to know to see that!-nothing screams "I'm a douche" louder than, "is it time for a lawyer?").

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772 Points

Babe (or greenhorn or whatever name you should go by),

You accused me of not reading peripheral stuff? Now, I have to accuse you of not reading and/or worse: not comprehending.

I was not withholding information. I was at the tail end of my day. Went to rest. It was one in the morning here in LA. I wasn't withholding information—all the information is already stored in the reference numbers I gave you. I don't know your process. You assumed I did. I first assumed you were employees of IMDb. You weren't.

I don't want to list myself as a festival. Your understanding of the English language is alarming.

Not all lawyers are mountebanks. Some actually do good work to prevent large entities from squashing the little ones...but from what you have demonstrated here today, this appears to be beyond your comprehension.

Please do not offer to help anyone else anymore. Help yourself first, or get help!

Champion

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4.6K Messages

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236.3K Points

Re:  "I don't want to list myself as a festival"

No one even implied that. To even consider that is insanity. 

You said (copied/pasted): "I already know that certain film festivals are not listed (but I don't know why or for what reason, but it would be reasonable to expect IMDb would inform users..."

The reason why is, no one has entered them.  You can do so.  It's all spelled out in plain English in the Help Area or you can ask here for guidance.

I answered (copied/pasted from my direct reply):

"If festivals are missing, as with all data on the site, it means it hasn't been submitted.  So, if you want to list yourself on a show/film/festival/etc. that hasn't been listed yet, find and submit the data.  Any registered user can submit information...that's how it all gets here."

or, if a festival is missing, you can submit it, then add yourself to it.  Same as if a film or TV is not yet listed and you want a credit for it, you can list it, then add yourself.

I never said nor implied you want to add yourself as a festival...or whatever that gibberish meant.

I also never meant anything about the lawyer being a mountebank.  I meant it's ridiculous to bring a lawyer into it as a threat of some ridiculous sort.

I never accused you of not reading peripheral stuff...it was the stuff right there on your screen in plain site.

Put the big words away, Slick, and pay attention to the small ones...they say so much more (and you haven't used any of the big ones correctly yet...sheesh, fella!).


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772 Points

Congratulations! You're officially a troll triumvirate now.

Relax. I misread your line with the word festival in it. I misread "on" as "as". I know how to add festivals. I already know how to add festivals. Boy, you people are annoying and constantly misrepresenting what I have explained. Please go away!

Please stop helping. YOU'RE NOT. I just want an answer from IMDb, and that is all I ever wanted. 

Leave me in peace.

Champion

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4.6K Messages

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236.3K Points

Instead of "relax" I assume you mean "sorry,"  ("Apology" accepted) or maybe some ridiculous big word with so many meanings you can throw it around as if you know what it means, Mr. Writer. For someone who purports to be a writer, you sure have difficulty making yourself understood (or even understanding what you've typed yourself). 

(copied/pasted):  "I know how to add festivals. I already know how to add festivals."

You right good.

I didn't tell you how (nor imply you don't know how). I simply said that if it's not already there, submit it. So, I can't see how telling me that you know how is at all relevant.

11 Messages

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228 Points

I've had my own trouble/frustration trying to communicate the the same complaint:

"This is the problem with these kinds of 'democratic information' websites—and it allows erroneous or incomplete information to propagate ceaselessly. It can, in extreme cases, border on libel and defamation."

As long as people go along with IMDB's concept that their 'Police Actions' help keep people honest, IMDB will continue to thrive as the trolls come marching in.

IMDB has NO business functioning like the 'Supreme Court of Movie Protocol'. In many cases, they have NO idea about a film project, especially those that are NOT produced within typical film production protocol; as with only ONE director/producer/filmmaker. IMDB should NOT allow total strangers/morons to create a site without the creator's permission. Yes, I agree it also borders on copyright infringement.  

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772 Points

@Michael Agreed. Especially since it has become a de facto standard by which people in the industry advertise what they have done which other industry people consult. IMDb is a victim of its own success—but must act accordingly [possibly unexplored legal territory]. After all, IMDb wanted it to become a standard, so now that it is, the information on there better be accurate; prevention of correction can be interpreted as deliberate. If they prevent users from correcting or entering information, while allowing other users to have their correct information, they are unleveling the playing field—much in the same way as iTunes.* This practice also damages their own product, especially if it stops being a standard.

[*As an aside, iTunes' search facility used to and still does to a lesser degree now, favor major artists over long-tail artists: you put in a full name and the name would not even show up, unless you knew to put it inside 'quotes'—which no normal user would know.]  

11 Messages

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228 Points

All films CANNOT be put into a 'cookie-cutter' format. That is to say a total/typical colaboration. Therefore certain films should NOT have automatic listing requirements placed upon them. IMDB needs to recognize this fact. There are plenty of instances where ONE person is the SOLE vehicle of his/her own creation; no funding, no executives, no nothing. IMDB should follow the efforts of: http://www.copyrightalliance.org/

Champion

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7.3K Messages

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273.9K Points

Michael: If someone makes a film completely by themself with no collaborators, that wouldn't prevent the film from getting listed in IMDb.

You may be thinking of the part of the IMDb "new titles form" where they ask for "Major Credits (3 items required)" from the categories of cast, writers, producers, cinematographers, composers, and editors. But you don't need to submit credits in that section for 3 different people. If you list the same person in the functions of (for example) writer, producer, and cast, that will qualify in terms of getting the form submitted.

(You would still need to complete the other sections of the form, usually including providing a Miscellaneous Link as evidence of the film being released to public view, but that is unrelated to the issue of how many people worked on the film.)

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772 Points

@Michael Fraticelli Hopefully gromit82 is correct. It hasn't been a problem for me in teh past, but then I can't get my bio fixed and an erroneous pseudonym removed.

@gromit82 What a reasonable response, without the snark attacks. Nice!

Champion

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4.6K Messages

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236.3K Points

@Jeffrey. bob explained to you that the AKA is because whomever submitted your Abby Singer credit completely botched it and listed you as playing "himself" and said your name appeared in the credits that way. bob didn't submit a change as it's locked and marked complete. I just submitted a miscellaneous comment so staff can open it for edits. They'll hopefully open it and/or fix it. I'll check back to see. Submission ID is 140611-013321-790000.

When bob asked how you'd tried to correct it you just gave a snark attack and didn't answer...so I hope I'm not wasting time retracing steps.

What's the "bio" issue to which you're alluding?

The normal way to correct or update bios is to re-write it and submit it whole hopefully with added or improved content. If you simply asked someone to take something out, that usually gets rejected.

If you have other concerns, you should probably start a new thread, leave out the legal threats and drama, if you can, and give the facts, incuding links, screen caps, etc. so people can follow what you're talking about. Don't tell them you've already given the info and refuse to do it again as those reading your post don't have that info...as you now know.

Good luck

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Blues,
Just for clarity, I did submit an update for the cast list to be unlocked, but then I realized I had to do it a different way - so submitted a misc correction as you have done (mine is 140609-204352-024000).
I do intend to fix this, it is a stupid error which was done at some point during the original addition....we will never know who did it, but looking at the detail of the title it does appear that a lot of the data was added by the production company themselves....so it is possible they just made a typo (Gold's credit is in the midst of a lot of people playing themselves....the data submitter for Wembly Hall may just have been on autopilot?
We don't know.
But Jeffrey is right, it needs to be fixed - I just don't think he understood what the barrier was to changing it and therefore the steps needed to be followed to try and correct it.

bob

note: I am not staff nor in any way affiliated with IMDb

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I think that's what it was too...someone was shooting through all those "themselves." But, that made me wonder if there is ordering that needs changing. I am not familiar with the title but also, I wondered, did the "themselves" people all actually appear as footage of them being themselves or were their parts scripted, which would mean they should be credited with the character name being their own name, but as acting credits and not "selfies." So, maybe it needs more editing than just that one credit remaining in the 33 slot (I think that's what it was).  Maybe Jeffrey can clarify that...

Actually I tried to verify the scripted thing and clicked on the external review link and it goes nowhere.  So, that also needs to be removed.  There is one user review who mentions it's completely unscripted.  So, I guess that answers that (additionally, the only 'writer' credit is for 'story'). 

Request to remove the link to external review 140611-070846-974000, the site no longer exists.  Link leads nowhere.

The outtakes reel shows discussion of how to do the scene, so I am not too sure about the "themselves" vs. "Character Name" thing.  If scripted, it should be a character name, but this is improve, but still not themselves...so input from staff would be needed, I'd think.

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I did a Google around to try to find the film online or otherwise but I only found a rather expensive copy on Amazon....for a few dollars maybe I would get it for the sake of the credits...but not more than that.

But yes on all the evidence it appears the production company made an error with the data - kudos to them for the thorough job of adding their own data, but they do appear to have slipped up as many of us do.

That said, Jeffrey, if you are reading this - if you happen to have a copy of the film, a screenshot of the credits showing your actual credit (even taken by camera off the screen) would make this job a lot easier since again someone (looks like the Production company) verified that the castlist was 100% correct - making it harder now for us random users to say that it isn't....

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@Bluesman: Thank you for clarifying. Yes, but why can't I correct it? Just because someone marked it as complete doesn't mean it's correct. After all, all producers (other than the megalomaniacal director) were removed as awardees after it was locked. See what I'm saying? It's inconsistent!

I corrected it by telling them that it was the name of the goddamn character. How simple is that? They don't write back, "Well, gee, Gold, we don't understand what that means." If they wrote back to tell me what part of character name and actor name they don't understand, perhaps I could elucidate them on this fine point; I know it's rather subtle—kind of like the difference between an orange and a 747.

Some of you keep on assuming I'm an idiot who doesn't know how to reference my submissions. This is basic. A child could understand what I submitted—but not IMDb.

I did rewrite the bio and submitted it. THIS IS WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT! They ignore the submissions, but provide no hint as to why.

@Bob I appreciate your explanation, but there is no way to submit an attachment (at least not when I tried correcting it years ago). On another issue, IMDB was sent the DVD and corrected something else...but that was at a time when they were new and more cooperative.

I'll have to dig up the DVD. If I get a screenshot, then what?

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I don't know why you guys are wasting your time doing IMDb's bidding. They simply are not worth it, given my history with them. They don't care enough about their community or their product...they just want to sell movies on Amazon.com (and I understand that). This is one of those rare instances where their greed isn't going far enough. Perhaps if they were greedier, they would care enough about their product.

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As to "how do I correct it?"  what we've been asking is, what steps did you actually take.  Like, "I went to the film's page, clicked "edit page" did steps x, y, z, then received a message the credits are locked. But, that's been covered now.

To, "If I get a screenshot, then what?"

Then, you'd save the screen shot to your pc and click the camera icon on the page where you're making a reply here...it's located at the bottom of the text box.  It will let you upload the file and the shot will appear here (see Henry's screen shot of your Abby Singer credit).  Then you post with it the submission ID number and staff here will forward it to the page editor.  They will either accept it as proven and update the page or reject it.  Normally, what you should do when you submit data is wait the 2-14 days it takes to update and if it doesn't go through, post evidence that might nudge it through. You can do so by posting here, as I've said, or upload it to a pic hosting site or put it into a "dropbox" folder (dropbox.com is great for this purpose...makes if very, very easy even for someone semi-computer-literate), and submit it on the data submission form http://www.imdb.com/helpdesk/data_verification

If you submitted a bio re-write, you could post the submission ID number (you might post a new thread...it might not get seen here in this mess of a thread) and ask staff for status and if they can guide you on how you might improve it to get it submitted.  They generally, would like it better if it adds data rather than removes data.  If you simply remove items the chance of rejection is pretty darn good.

Employee

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10 years ago

The existing listing is based on the on-screen credits for the film, which don't show "Jeffrey Gold" as having played a character named "Blackley Hudson" -- they only show "Blackley Hudson" playing "Himself",

Since the role was really played by Jeffrey Gold credited under the name "Blackley Hudson", our listing appears to be correct, as it reflects on-screen credits. The alternate name information is also correct since Jeffrey Gold has used the alternate name Blackley Hudson in on-screen credits.  See screen grab below for verification.


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"I don't know why you guys are wasting your time doing IMDb's bidding. They simply are not worth it, given my history with them. They don't care enough about their community or their product...they just want to sell movies on Amazon.com (and I understand that."

I know I've chimed in here several times. I'm sorry, but I have to agree, its infuriating to see IMDB function as though they were a 'Movie Morality Police Force'. They assume producers, actors, and staff are ego maniacs or morons who look for a free ride or any opportunity to do so. What about the honest hard working artists who DON'T need this ridiculous babysitting police force? If a hardworking filmmaker produces legitimate credits, (visible for all to see), and for whatever reason posts the film on IMDB, then the system should be set up so the input process remains PRIVATE. If legitimate changes need to be made, they should be done so by email, (with a responsible collaboration of necessary responsible parties). CLOSE the damn door that's door to every moron, fool, ignoramus, and troll to edit  freely  as they wish. Say what you want about Wikipedia, (yes its a helpful resource), but there's countless examples of untruths that will stay there forever because some geek believes a moron, and not a well researched piece of information. How dare you IMDB to continually allow incorrect data flow freely, and REFUSE to give proper credit. Everything cannot be set up like a 'Democratic Process' It just doesn't work that way. Just look at the total MESS that's out there and the number of complaints. Most insulting is the INSANE policy that allows ANYONE post someone else's hard work, and butcher the hell out of it. And NO I don't believe for ONE minute that IMDB wants to make it right. Personally, IMDB can go to H.... Who the Hell needs them anyway? And Why?






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Thanks Henry.  Sorry for the erroneous submission.  That's what I get for taking the word of someone posting here instead of words on screen.  Glad you had a way to check it!

@Jeffrey...this is why we were asking for factual data on which to base corrections submitted for you.  I'd be willing to bet you knew you were credited that way and withheld the information.  Glad Henry could keep you honest and use facts.

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Henry,
Great to see staff here....unfortunately I have to side with Jeffrey now that you present the credit screenshot.

1) "Verified correct"
This screenshot alone proves that the credits should be unlocked - Jeff Goldblum is spelt "Jeff Goldblume" on that screenshot - but not on the credits list for this film....so it needs to be corrected which means it needs to be unverified.

2) The logic around Blackley Hudson
2a) The onscreen credit
Okay - the credits show that there is a person playing themselves and that person is called Blackley Hudson. So in theory there needs to be a separate page for this person, totally not connected to Jeffrey?
But for some reason you are determined to keep this attached to Jeffrey? What is the reason....don't IMDb list it as it is credited? You are not doing that here...

2b) The "self credit" intention
As per the link there is a discussion about when and how to apply the "himself" credit - with viewer understanding apparently playing a part....as described in that thread by staff. Using the same logic, we have to review this credit because a fictional person was credited and someone played that fictional character - it was not an aka for the actor, it was an odd "self" credit that we have to understand to correctly credit.

I would love to know where you got a copy of that screenshot - I hope you will use the source to review this whole title since the Jeff Goldblume thing proves there are errors in there....and I also continue to agree with Jeffrey about how his performance should be credited...

I doubt you'll ever see this comment buried so deep in here!

bob

note: I am not staff nor in any way affiliated with IMDb


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Sorry Henry - but to add to the "Mr Gorbachev unverify this cast" thing...at the bottom of your screenshot is Carrie-Anne Moss playing herself...but she is not listed on the IMDb page for this....so again, how can it be verified as complete.

Employee

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Re: the self credit, the role in question was played by Jeffrey Gold. The on-screen credit is for Blackely Hudson. Hence, the role was performed by Jeffrey Gold and credited under the name Blackley Hudson -- this type of credit is not uncommon in situations where someone adopts a different performing persona. 

One thing to consider is that we do not knowingly create name pages for fictional characters and we do not knowingly create separate name pages belonging to the same individual. I say "knowingly" because of course there might be examples where such pages exist because we are not aware of them; if/when we become aware of these errors, we fix them.

In this case, "Blackley Hudson" doesn't exist as an individual -- it's a fictional name which was used by a person who already has a name page in the database. So we can't create a separate page for this name.

Imagine a situation where a performer named John Doe does a magic act under the name "Mandrake the Magnificent". 

If this person performed on a show or film and got a credit like "And featuring Mandrake the Magnificent as himself", wouldn't you agree that this is a credit for John Doe performing/appearing under the name "Mandrake the Magnificent"?

You can make a case that the character description should be for "Mandrake the Magnificent" instead of "Himself" but there's no doubt that the performer's on-screen credited name is "Mandrake The Magnificent" and not John Doe, since the latter name doesn't appear anywhere. And if John Doe already has a page on IMDb under his name, then this credit would go on his page too.

The point I was trying to address, which was the jumping off point or this discussion is whether "Blackley Hudson" is a valid alternate name for Jeffrey Gold. The answer, based on the on-screen credits and on our naming conventions/rules, is yes: when a person is credited on-screen under a different name, then that name is an alternate name and will be automatically associated with their primary name. There would be no other way to correctly represent this information. Without the alternate name details, a person looking at the credits of the film and seeing the name "Blackley Hudson" and searching for that name on IMDb would not be able to find the person that the name refers to. The frequency of use of the name doesn't really matter -- if the name was used on screen, we will list it as an alternate name even if it was a typo that occurred only once.

Regarding the 'verified' credits, it's entirely possible that names are listed under different spellings than what appeared on screen -- this is often a consequence of other changes not made directly to the film's listing.

An example scenario could be when the onscreen credit is listed under a spelling variation and initially credited as such, and later corrected to the accurate spelling without adding the proper attribute. 

For example, an entry for "Jeff Goldblume" might have originally been added under that name and later corrected/merged into the 'Jeff Goldblum' listing by someone who identified both names as belonging to the same person.  I'll let the appropriate people know so they can check/rectify any similar omissions. 


 

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Henry,
I understand your point and I agree with you - however with so many things in life, maybe it helps to turn to Space Jame. Space Jam is full of people credited as "Himself" however IMDb lists them as playing people who are versions of themselves...regardless of what is listed onscreen, the context of the film is what is taken.
My question is why that context is not taken here?

The Jeff Goldblume thing - again I understand the concept, but it should be (as Jeff Goldblume).

So with this, Carrie-Anne Moss and the discussions over Jeffrey's credit we have 3 errors or doubts in one single screenshot....the credits need to be unverified and corrected using the copy you seem to have.

Appreciate your work on this Henry.

bob

note: I am not staff nor in any way affiliated with IMDb

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I agree with that...some things need correcting regardless of the main issues in this thread.

I see mention of a dvd was sent to IMDb when it was first listed (is that the one Henry has?)...and then there's the one available on Amazon.  If the Amazon dvd is a different version, possibly with some of those things corrected, could we get the newer one somehow and see what's in the credits there?  It's a little expensive for what bob or I would spend just to see...maybe Henry's got a company credit card??? Or would Henry get a company discount since it's from Amazon??? ;)

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10 years ago

Where else have I purportedly used it?

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IMDb does not document other places it's been used...they document the on screen credits.  There only needs to be one place.

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10 years ago

It is an error. Blackley Hudson didn't play himself. There is no Blackley Hudson. I played a character named Blackeley Hudson.

It's from an early version of the film.

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IMDb documents on screen credits.  If the credits have an error, it gets documented.  For an example, look at the credits for Annie Hall.  Christopher Walken is credited as "Christopher Wlaken" because that's how it was shown on screen in the original version of the film.  If they've fixed it for subsequent releases, it's still documented for the original film.

Christopher Walken Christopher Walken ... Duane Hall (as Christopher Wlaken)



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10 years ago

Since IMDb finally arrived, what about my bio fix? What about the win we had in Houston---not just the nomination?

Thank you.

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I don't know a lot about submitting awards but do you have a link to information about that win?  I can look for it later and don't have time now, but if you can dig it up in the mean time, perhaps we can get that settled (did bob say he is submitting it?...if he's done so, it might not be needed).

Employee

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10 years ago

Mr. Gold:

Regarding your bio, the submission referenced in your original message is an attempt to drastically reduce/shorten the existing biography, which is probably the reason why our editors did not accept it. Generally speaking, our staff will not remove biographical information that they believe to be correct: if there are specific inaccurate details in your bio, please submit a revised/corrected version (of comparable length/content) or let us know exactly what's wrong so we can fix it.

Re: the award correction, I will look into the status of those updates and let you know as soon as I know something more.



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10 years ago

@Henry: Thanks.

@Bluesman: No. I was credited by my name as an associate producer. I am also credited by my name as an actor in another piece. I have no reason to use a pseudonym as an actor.

The win was on the same Houston World-Fest website. I think it might be an officially linked PDF on that site (which I submitted; the link, of course, since they don't have an upload document facility). I'll try to dig it up, but it was submitted two or three times—as far as I remember. Henry could verify that. You're asking me to recount things I did calendars ago.

You can document that I was Jeffrey Gold AKA Blackeley Hudson in that role, but I'm not also known as Blackeley Hudson in real life—although I may now have to consider it. I better register with the IRS, Social Security, FBI, CIA, and the draft board, and visit my local police department, and let them know. :-)

Also, if the credits were locked, please explain the circumstances by which the solipsistic director was able to remove all the producers—including the executive producer, Paul A. Wood, who largely financed Abby Singer—from the New Orleans awards and other awards won at other festivals? If they were directing awards, they would have been named as such. Since I was there, I remember more than just the director going up to receive the award. The award goes to...Abby Singer (the film). Same with the other awards. FYI: The Park City FIlm Music Festival awards go to the composer, director, and producers. About that, you can ask festival director Leslie Harlow yourself.

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10 years ago

Q: When is IMDb finally going to acknowledge the various screenwriting awards—not just mine, I mean: the ones in existence?

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I am not sure what you mean. Do you just mean that there are some not getting listed on IMDb?  The answer to "why is x, y or z missing from IMDb?" is pretty much always the same...no one has submitted them.  If you are aware of something missing you can always submit it.

For reference there is:

Submission Guide: Awards

IMDb Awards

IMDb lists, for example

American Screenwriters Association, USA



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10 years ago

Henry is the best interaction I've ever had with IMDb. He's a real credit to IMDb and Amazon.

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10 years ago

Keep in mind, next time you are arrested, you need to give any AKA's, Blackeley! ;-)

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10 years ago

I'll definitely just give out my false name if I am arrested. ;-)