keyword_expert's profile

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Sunday, November 27th, 2022 8:38 PM

In Progress

IMDb should configure the system to block any title from being simultaneously listed as a "Short" and with a running time of 45+ minutes

There are currently 339 titles listed on IMDb as Shorts with running times of 45 minutes or longer, as shown at this link: https://www.imdb.com/search/title/?title_type=short&runtime=45,&sort=runtime,desc

That should never have been allowed in the first place, since IMDb's policies prohibit any title from being designated with the Short category if the running time is 45 minutes or longer:

Short Any theatrical film or made-for-video title with a running time of less than 45 minutes, i.e., 44 minutes or less, or any TV series or TV movie with a running time of less than 22 minutes, i.e. 21 minutes or less. (A "half-hour" television program should not be listed as a Short.) If known, please submit the running time if we do not have one on record. Objective.

Source: https://help.imdb.com/article/contribution/titles/genres/GZDRMS6R742JRGAG?ref_=helpms_helpart_inline#short

Since IMDb's policies also tell us that "[r]unning times should be rounded to the nearest minute," what the policy on running times for Shorts is really telling us is that any film with a running time of 44:30 or more is not eligible for the Short genre.

I posted about this a year ago as a response to another post, back when there were 167 Shorts with runtimes of 45 minutes or longer. That thread was subsequently closed. Since then, the number of films in this category has doubled, to 339 (and I personally did some manual cleanup by eliminating the Short category from several ineligible titles back then). 

It would seem easy enough for IMDB to configure the system to automatically block any title from being simultaneously listed as a "Short" and with a running time of 45 minutes or longer. The system could alert the contributor with a warning explaining the policy and why Shorts cannot be longer than 44 minutes.

Is IMDb willing to make this change to the submission process?

If not, the next best alternative would be for IMDb staff to do a mass cleanup by eliminating the Short genre from the titles at this link:

https://www.imdb.com/search/title/?title_type=short&runtime=45,&sort=runtime,desc

Bethanny

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2 months ago

Hi @keyword_expert -

The list sent does not include TV series or TV movies? just to confirm.

Thanks!

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@Bethanny​ 

Good point. I thought about TV movies when writing this post and even did some quick searches on that, but incorrectly assumed without really verifying that TV movies were included by default, when in fact they were not. 

Here is a new search link that includes both Short films and TV Shorts with running times 45 minutes or longer (currently 351 titles):

https://www.imdb.com/search/title/?title_type=short,tv_short&runtime=45,&sort=runtime,asc

As for TV series, I don't think those should be included in the search, since the runtime policy for Shorts applies only to films, not to TV shows. 

The Advanced Search page doesn't directly allow the searching of titles with Short as a genre, so that makes it a little tricky to put these searches together.

(edited)

Bethanny

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@keyword_expert​ No I was asking to be sure they are not included since the policy says: "or any TV series or TV movie with a running time of less than 22 minutes, i.e. 21 minutes or less" so TV movies should not be counted on this.
In this case the first link would be the correct one, am I right?

Champion

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Bethanny: You can delete the Short genre from any title in the first link. All the titles in that link are at least 45 minutes long. To the extent that there are TV series or TV movies included the first link, then 45 minutes would be twice as long as the limit for them to be considered a Short. 

The next question would be how to do a search for TV series or TV movies that are listed as Shorts but are more than 22 minutes long. I am not sure exactly how to do that as an advanced search.

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@Bethanny​ Okay, thanks for clarifying; I was overlooking the part of the policy about TV movies and series.

Yes, the original link is the one to use (for feature films).

However, it probably makes sense to also configure the system to implement the policy for TV titles by also blocking any TV listing from being simultaneously listed as a Short and with a running time of 22 minutes or more. Here is a new search link for that:

https://www.imdb.com/search/title/?title_type=tv_short,tv_series,tv_special,tv_miniseries,tv_episode&genres=short&runtime=22,&sort=runtime,desc

And wow! That TV search link currently returns 16,145 titles.

When individual episodes are omitted from the TV search, the result is 2,305 titles.

If IMDb staff are planning to use these links to remove the Short genre from these titles, it probably makes sense to start with the link omitting the individual episodes, and then, for verification purposes, proceed to the link with the episodes included.

(edited)

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@gromit82​ 

The next question would be how to do a search for TV series or TV movies that are listed as Shorts but are more than 22 minutes long. I am not sure exactly how to do that as an advanced search.

I think this search (the one I just posted in response to @Bethanny) works for that:

https://www.imdb.com/search/title/?title_type=tv_short,tv_series,tv_special,tv_miniseries,tv_episode&genres=short&runtime=22,&sort=runtime,desc

You can delete the Short genre from any title in the first link.

I agree. I would hope staff would do that for both links, and more importantly, they should also configure the system to block these "non-short" Shorts from being created in the first place.

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@Bethanny@gromit82 

I realized that my original search link did not include made-for-video titles.

Here is a new link to replace my original link that includes both made-for-video titles and feature films 45 minutes and longer (currently 391 titles).

Video/Short Film, Short, Running Time at least 45 (Sorted by Runtime Descending)

https://www.imdb.com/search/title/?title_type=video,short&genres=short&runtime=45,&sort=runtime,desc

And finally, here are some final, comprehensive links for you.

This link picks up all titles that have the Short genre and are 45 minutes or longer. This includes everything (videos, podcasts, etc.) that meet those criteria. There are currently 717 titles at this link. The Short genre can and should be deleted from all 717 titles.

Short, Running Time at least 45 (Sorted by Runtime Descending)

https://www.imdb.com/search/title/?genres=short&runtime=45,&sort=runtime,desc

I did the same search a different way, and also got 717 titles, which confirms the data is solid:

Feature Film/TV Movie/TV Series/TV Episode/TV Special/TV Mini-Series/Documentary/Video Game/Short Film/Video/TV Short/Podcast Series/Podcast Episode/Music Video, Short, Running Time at least 45 (Sorted by Runtime Descending)

https://www.imdb.com/search/title/?title_type=feature,tv_movie,tv_series,tv_episode,tv_special,tv_miniseries,documentary,video_game,short,video,tv_short,podcast_series,podcast_episode,music_video&genres=short&runtime=45,&sort=runtime,desc

Again, the Short genre can and should be deleted from all 717 titles at those last two links.

(edited)

Champion

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@keyword_expert

It is possible for a series to have short episodes, but also have an entry for the running time of the entire series.

(edited)

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[DELETED, since I misunderstood @Peter_pbn's comment]

(edited)

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By deleting the Short genre from several dozen popular TV series displayed at this link, I was able to cut by more than half the number of individual TV titles that have the Short genre yet a running time of 22 minutes or more, as shown at this link

That number has now been cut from 16,145 titles down to 7,974 titles at last count. That is still a lot of titles, but my work on this proves that it is possible to make large dents in the TV numbers by editing at the series level first, before editing at the episode level.

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With TV series specifically, if IMDb does configure the system to prevent series from being simultaneously assigned the Short genre and a running time of 22 minutes or longer, then there should be an exception for running times that include "(entire series)" as an attribute. That's because of the following guideline:

We prefer to list one single running time for all titles which corresponds the default running time. This is the running time of the original release version in the country of origin and is indicated by an entry with a blank country field. However the running time of an entire series can be added once the series has completed, the complete running time should be submitted with the attribute (entire series).

Source: https://help.imdb.com/article/contribution/titles/running-times/G8UMSUYEDCN3M2K8?ref_=helpms_helpart_inline#

A few TV series are listed with the total running time for the entire series, per the bolded sentence above. And some of those titles are also listed with the Short genre at the series level, and some of these series do actually qualify for the Short genre (because their episodes are less than 22 minutes each). 

This title is a good example: 

Action on NTV (2019–2020)

A handful of similar titles (less than 10 titles) can be seen at the top of the search results at this link: 

https://www.imdb.com/search/title/?title_type=tv_series&genres=short&runtime=22,&sort=runtime,desc

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@Peter_pbn​ 

It is possible for a series to have short episodes, but also have an entry for the running time of the entire series.

I just realized I previously misunderstood your comment. You were talking about the same issue that I just posted about: series that list a running time with an attribute as "(entire series)." 

I think this should be an exception to any reconfiguration of the system that blocks series from being simultaneously listed with the Short genre and a running time of 22 minutes or more. The exception should should allow the Short genre on series with running times longer than 21 minutes if those running times have the "(entire series)" attribute.

(edited)

Bethanny

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2 months ago

Hey @keyword_expert , @gromit82 & @Peter_pbn -

I am now working on cleaning titles with greater running times thank 44min, will then proceed to cut a ticket to our team in charge to work on the blocking of the submissions itself, and of course clean the series part. I will let you all now how the process is going.

Cheers!

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@Bethanny​ 

I see that the Short genre has now been scrubbed from all titles at my original link. Nice work.

Did you see that I came up with some additional links in this thread?

Here is a link that picks up direct-to-video titles and some other films categorized as Short Films by category (not by genre):

Video/Short Film, Short, Running Time at least 45 (Sorted by Runtime Descending)

https://www.imdb.com/search/title/?title_type=video,short&genres=short&runtime=45,&sort=runtime,desc

And here is a link that picks up everything longer than 45 minutes, but I will give you some caveats after the link:

Short, Running Time at least 45 (Sorted by Runtime Descending)

https://www.imdb.com/search/title/?genres=short&runtime=45,&sort=runtime,desc

For that last link, it picks up a handful of TV series that have the Short genre plus a running time that compiles the total running time for the entire series, which is allowed per the guidelines, as long as the "(entire series)" attribute is used. Only a very small number of titles is affected -- that looks to be most or all of the first 7 series listed at this link: 

https://www.imdb.com/search/title/?title_type=tv_series&genres=short&runtime=45,&sort=runtime,desc

Some of those 7 series use the "(entire series)" attribute for their compiled running times, while others do not. For the ones that do not, I tried to edit the running times to add in the "(entire series)" attribute to the existing running times, but the system typically blocks me from even submitting those changes because it senses that the running time itself is not being changed.

For those 7 titles, this may require some manual editing to add in the "(entire series)" attribute for the running times. 

Finally, if possible, the "(entire series)" attribute should be taken into account when the system is reconfigured to block this from happening again on TV series. 

Bethanny

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@keyword_expert​ Thanks for those links, will try to keep cleaning all the wrong info.

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@Bethanny​ 

Here is another good link for easily cleaning out the Short genre where it doesn't belong. This link currently picks up 939 titles, and the Short genre should be removed from 100% of them.

TV Short, Short, Running Time at least 22 (Sorted by Runtime Descending)

https://www.imdb.com/search/title/?title_type=tv_short&genres=short&runtime=22,&sort=runtime,desc

Bethanny

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@keyword_expert​ Thanks for that! All clean :)

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@Bethanny​ You're welcome. Here is another link that currently picks up 69 titles that should all have the Short genre removed from them. This mainly covers TV movies and Videos and a few other random odds and ends, and does not include series or any individual episodes that may inherit the Short genre from their parent series.

Feature Film/TV Movie/TV Special/Documentary/Video Game/Short Film/Video/TV Short/Music Video, Short, Running Time at least 45 (Sorted by Runtime Descending)

https://www.imdb.com/search/title/?title_type=feature,tv_movie,tv_special,documentary,video_game,short,video,tv_short,music_video&genres=short&runtime=45,&sort=runtime,desc

And here is an entire series where the Short genre should be removed, but for some reason IMDb denied my contribution (#221217-182246-008000) attempting to delete the Short genre:

Horror's Hallowed Grounds (2006- )

(edited)

Bethanny

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@keyword_expert​ Fixed the submission, will clear the rest as soon as I can