bradley_kent's profile

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Wednesday, March 31st, 2021 1:50 AM

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Genres Should Not Be Keywords

The guidelines are very clear in stating that genres should not be repeated as keywords.  Yet, this problem continues to happen.

Recently, I have audited and corrected 96 "thrilller" (Yes, three l's) keywords and 80 "mistery" (yes, with an "i" instead of a "y) keywords as well as many, many other keywords that duplicate genres.  I have yet to get to over 200 titles tat have "dramas" as a keyword.  (A genre, as well as an unacceptable plural.) There were a few 2018-and-before titles with these mistakes, but almost all were 2019-2020-2021 titles, many of them Shorts.  I can only surmise that, in recent years, contributors and keyword list managers do not know and/or do not enforce the guidelines.  

To help control this problem, contributors must be informed of their mistakes and keyword list managers should review and enforce the guidelines.

There is also something else that seems to contribute to this problem.  Genres are processed later that keywords.  But, since genres and keywords are so closely related, it seems that they should be on the same processing schedule.

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23.6K Points

4 years ago

Just also audited and corrected incorrect generic keywords "si-fi" (13 titles) and "si-fi-movie" (3 title). (Yes, "si" instead of "sci.") Thank God, there was NO "sigh-fie (-on-goodness-fie)" incorrect keyword!  Or, maybe it's a Spaniard saying yes to a Frenchwoman "si-fifi!"

P.S. I couldn't resist!

(edited)

Employee

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17.6K Messages

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314.4K Points

4 years ago

Hi bradley_kent -

 

It is correct that main genre's should not be listed as Keywords, however, we are flexible in allowing sub-plot genres to be displayed as Keywords, such as: "dark-comedy", "supernatural-horror", "psychological-thriller", etc.

 

In instances where you are seeing primary genres that are not eligible (sci-fi, drama, thriller, documentary) please continue to report these for removal and our editors will take the applicable actions to remove.

 

Cheers!

 

 

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Yes, I understand that, Michele.  I am well aware that there are sub-genres that are acceptable keywords. 

I am concerned with incorrect keywords like musical-comedy, thriller-drama, etc., that duplicate genres in keywords by combining one or two or three or four (yes, I've seen that many) into a supposedly single keyword.

While we're at it, standalone keywords like "psychological" and "emotional" (even "emotions") should not be allowed as keywords.  Isn't EVERY title, in more or less degrees, "psychological" and "emotional"?

It also seems dubious to use "psychological" as a keyword antecedent.  Is not EVERY thriller "psychological"?

Also, why would one need "supernatural-horror" as a keyword IF one has "supernatural-powers" as a keyword with "Horror" as a genre?  Does that not make that title automatically a "supernatural-horror"?

Most problematic of all are "dark-comedy" and "back comedy."  These really need to be defined, especially "black-comedy."  Some seem to think that this applies to a comedy that has characters of African descent, while others know that it is a comedy that touches on the macabre and absurd.  

And then, of course, there's good ole "dramedy," which should NOT be a keyword, but should be acknowledged with both Drama and Comedy genres.  And, instead of "romcom," it should be Romance and Comedy as genres.

As you know, I do report incorrect primary genre keywords.  I just wish that contributors would not submit them, and that keyword list managers would intercept them.

(edited)

147 Messages

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1.9K Points

It also seems dubious to use "psychological" as a keyword antecedent.  Is not EVERY thriller "psychological"?

I agree with you for "psychological" being used by itself. But "psychological thriller", "psychological horror" and "psychological drama" are well understood and used subgenre terms. They describe shows and films that have a specific focus on a characters psychological problems, and the suffix "-drama", "-horror", "-thriller" in those cases represent the way in which it is done. 

You could maybe replace "psychological" with "psychological-series" or "psychological-focus" (and then filter by drama/thriller or horror) or something to encompass all 3.

Also, why would one need "supernatural-horror" as a keyword IF one has "supernatural-powers" as a keyword with "Horror" as a genre?  Does that not make that title automatically a "supernatural-horror"?

Yes, the use of "supernatural-[x]" variants could be cleaned up, albeit just "supernatural" would be better to note here.

Most problematic of all are "dark-comedy" and "back comedy."  These really need to be defined, especially "black-comedy."  Some seem to think that this applies to a comedy that has characters of African descent, while others know that it is a comedy that touches on the macabre and absurd.  

They're both the same thing, but yes, one term needs to be made the systems main term.

As you know, I do report incorrect primary genre keywords.  I just wish that contributors would not submit them, and that keyword list managers would intercept them.

It's whack-a-mole. The problem ultimately is the system itself. Too many people use IMDB for this to ever stop.

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47K Points

Most sources on the Internet would agree that "dark comedy" and "black comedy" mean the same thing. However, some sources suggest that "black comedy" involves more tragic plot points, such as death. I don't know if this is correct, but some people on the Internet do believe there is a distinction. Here are some examples:

What is the difference between black and dark humor?

black comedy is sort of poking fun at death and dark subjects in a sort of ironic and meta.

Black comedy is a self aware sort of humor knowing how bad it is but still making it funny, relying on the joke not the reaction.

Dark humor is much less funny but is a more absurdist sort of a joke. There are plenty of overlaps in black comedy and dark humor, but generally dark humor elicits a result from the audience of general disgust. “Oh that’s awful, I shouldn’t be laughing at that.” - General response from a bunch of people.

When done right black humor can get an audience rolling around on the floor laughing. When done incorrectly, it feels forced and they try too hard.

In summary, Black comedy pokes fun at death in a fun way that is entertaining. Whereas dark humor is a more absurdist take on Black comedy, meant to be foul and immoral.

How is black comedy different from dark comedy?

Dark comedy uses various targets that aren’t usually joked about. It can be depression, poverty, war, or any number of other typically serious topics. Black comedy is aimed specifically at death, the darkest of all topics.

I’ll paraphrase a line from Richard Pryor to illustrate black comedy. “Life is the ultimate joke. It don’t care how famous you are, how much money you got, how many friends you got. You ain’t gettin’ out alive.”

What Is Black Comedy? Our Definitive Guide

Black humor is not just any kind of dark comedy; it specifically refers to being funny in spite of something terrible happening.

Champion

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14.5K Messages

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331.1K Points

4 years ago

In some cases, the genre guidelines direct contributors to submit genres as keywords:

Under Romance:

Note: Reminder, as with all genres if this does not describe the movie wholly, but only certain scenes or a subplot, then it should be submitted as a keyword instead.

Under War:

Note: for titles that portray fictional war, please submit it as a keyword only.

This is not "repeating genres" as only the keywords and not the genres would be listed for such titles.

Yesterday Michelle approved a submission of the war keyword, so I assume she agrees.

If IMDb prefers that main genres should not be listed as keywords at all, they should update their own guidelines.

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23.6K Points

These two guidelines may need to be revised.  In order to avoid confusion. In the first case, the keyword should be "fictional-war," not "war,"  and, in the second case, "love-interest," not "romance."    

Currently, the keyword count is:

fictional-war    1242

war                       89

love-interest.   1724

romance                 0

UPDATE: After an audit, the number of titles with "war" as a keyword is now 2.  One of these is for an episode where the series keywords already cover it (this has already been submitted, but not accepted),  and I'm waiting for research to correct the other one.

(edited)

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23.6K Points

Just audited 28 titles that had "comedie" as a keyword. All had Comedy as a genre, and did not mean the comedie-francaise.  I have also worked on many other titles with keyword-genre problems.  Is anyone enforcing the guideline that genres should not be keywords?  Perhaps every genre or combination of genres should have a stop on them when submitted as a keyword.

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47K Points

3 years ago

@bradley_kent It is a "mistery" to me why you didn't ever (until recently) ask for any of these genre keywords to be perma-banned (blocked from the system). You have been working for years to manually edit these substitute genre keywords down to zero, only to see the keywords reemerge shortly thereafter. Why did you not simply ask for the keywords to be permanently blocked? 

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23.6K Points

3 years ago

I had asked.  And I had (incorrectly) assumed that the staff would adhere to IMDb's own guidelines regarding genres being banned as keywords that just combined one genre with  another. Many times, I hesitated to ask the staff because they seemed so unresponsive.  You have much better luck at getting them to respond than I have had.  Oh, well...

(edited)