Genre List Manager: Here we go again!

Hi @bradley_kent, I've looked at your contribution and can confirm it was declined because no evidence was provided to support that this title should have the Drama genre listed alongside the Western genre. Whilst these two genres can often coexist, this isn't always the case. For example, the AFI lists this title as a Western only: https://catalog.afi.com/Film/25995-LARAMIE?sid=f0f980ce-3d5f-4c2b-822a-4d6c166d28cc&sr=0.16412337&cp=1&pos=0 Furthermore, looking at the title's plot, although dramatic elements exist in the conflict and murder mystery, they serve to support the Western narrative rather than being the primary driving force of the story. If you are able to provide an explanation as to why the Drama genre should be added to this title, we advise you to do so in a re-submission. Please also add your re-submission reference number to this thread so I can personally monitor it through processing for you. Thanks!

So, the policy established in 2023 has apparently been destroyed. I can’t say “completely” because contributions are being processed in an inconsistent manner that defies logic and sanity. Some contributions are being accepted while others are not. There seems to be no “rhyme no reason” at play here. It is vey irritating. I now have over 150 genre submissions that have not been processed correctly. I am a longtime, prolific contributor, and this nonsense is leading me to “the breaking point.” I go back to before Amazon purchased the website! Please, check the many “Genre List Manage” postings that I have posted on this thread, and see that the problem extends throughout the genres. Back in 2023, I spent hours, weeks, months correcting this problem. Now, that CONTRIBUTED work has been ruined. This is an insult and affront to a dedicated contributor. This posting is a formal grievance, and I would appreciate an official response,

Hi bradley_kent - I completely understand your frustration, and I want to emphasize how much we value your data contributions and insights throughout your time as a contributor. As we discussed, while many films feature dramatic elements, it’s crucial that genres are assigned based on the primary characteristics that define the film, in line with our genre guidelines. In this case (and many others), "Western" as the primary genre more accurately captures the essence of these films, rather than adding "Drama" as a secondary genre. I know you’re passionate about genre classifications, and I truly appreciate the effort you've made to expand these discussions. Our goal is always to ensure the most accurate and helpful information for our users. In cases where you believe the Drama genre is a fitting accompaniment to the Western genre, I encourage you to include supporting evidence and an explanation to help provide full context for our team reviewing the submission. In the meantime, I’ll ensure your feedback is shared with the relevant team for further consideration of the inconsistencies you've mentioned, as well as a review of potential improvements to our current policies.

First, genres should report and reflect the observable reality. That is most possible from a study or viewing of a title. (I see at least one, often two or three films a day, and, at 84 years of age, that runs into the hundreds of thousands.) Second, IMDb’s genre definitions and decisions may not allow that. Third, there is a terrible inconsistency among IMDb’s genre list managers as to HOW genre decisions ae made. As an experiment, I submitted Drama as a genre for over sixty Charles Starrett Westerns. All but three wee accepted: 250312-021204-429000 Track Contribution 2025-03-12 02:12:04 The Durango Kid (1940) Genres - 1 item added 250312-011021-504000 Track Contribution 2025-03-12 01:10:21 Galloping Thunder (1946) Genres - 1 item added 250312-002836-474000 Track Contribution 2025-03-12 00:28:36 The Kid from Broken Gun (1952) Genres - 1 item added Curiously, is the exclusion of The Durango Kid (1940) a joke? Starrett played that same character in many subsequent titles where Drama was accepted as a genre. Some Genre List Manages seem very resistant to listing Drama as a genre for Western TV series, even for series that were nominated for and /or won Emmys and Golden Globes in the Drama categories. The Big Valley and Bonanza have both Western and Drama, as genes, BUT Wagon Train and Gunsmoke only have Western. Makes absolutely no sense.. Fourth, supporting materials (other than a review or two) are often not available, especially on older and less-well-known titles. What IMDb considers acceptable supporting material is elusive and unrealistic and sometimes even impossible. The AFI catalog, of examples is very limited and certainly incomplete. And, then, thee is the problem of acceptability. Why, IMDb doesn’t even accept the BFI. Example: 250311-213234-249000 Track Contribution 2025-03-11 21:32:34 The Innocents (1961) Genres - 1 item added How is this NOT a Thriller? Did the Genre List Manger even LOOK at the explanation? Five, the vast majority of titles will have more than one genre. Purists will be at a loss when it comes to genres. Secondly genes should be listed with pimary genes (and often are). Many of the great Westerns directed by John Ford, Henry Hathaway, Anthony Mann, Budd Boetticher, etc, are as much a Drama as they are a Western. Some of the Westerns of Randolph Scott, Alan Ladd, Audie Murphy, etc. have both Drama and Western as genes, while the deserved submissions of Drama as a genre for others are confusingly denied. My main concern is that this problem was being addressed back in 2023, and much clarity resulted. Sadly, much of that conscientious and time-consuming and CONTRIBUTED work has been destroyed. Was this due to over zealous Genre List Managers who did not know about the previous discussions and decisions? Was it a misunderstanding of the genes, themselves? Was it other contributor(s), with a different agenda, who made these destructive changes? What?

The absurdity of the inconsistency are astounding.. Conquest of Cochise (1953) gets both Drama and Western as genes, but adding Drama as a genre for Taza, Son of Cochise (1954) is denied. War Paint (1953) gets both Drama and Western as genres, but adding Drama as a genre for War Arrow (1953) is denied. Arizona Territory (1950) gets both Drama and Western as genres, but adding Drama as a genre for Colorado Territory (1949) is denied. Pony Express Rider (1976) gets both Drama and Western as genes, but adding Drama as a genre to Pony Express (1953) is denied. Star in the Dust (1956) gets both Drama and Western as genes, but adding Drama as a genre for Stars in My Crown (1952) is denied. Black Hose Canyon (1954) gets both Drama and Western as genes, but adding Drama as a genre for Border River (1954) is denied. (They’re back-to-back Universal-International-Joel McCrea titles.) Gunfight at the O.K.Corral (1967) gets both Drama and Western as genes, but adding Drama as a genre for The Gunfight at Dodge City (1959) is denied Lone Texan (1959) gets both Drama and Western as genes, but adding Drama as a genre for The Lone Texan (1956) is denied. “The Big Valley” (1956-1959) and The Big Country (1958) get both Drama and Western as genres, but adding Drama as a genre for The Big Land (1957) is denied. Stagecoach (1939) and even the tv vision, Stgecoach (1986) get both Drama and Western as genes, but adding Drama as a genre for Stagecoach (1966) is denied. You get the idea. I could go on and on…

This is a really obtuse point of view. If adhered to, Film-Noir titles should NOT have Drama as a genre, Musical titles should NOT have Comedy as a genre, War titles should NOT have Drama as a genre, etc. The decision back in 2023 was to have Westen titles treated in the same way as other genres since there are differences between a Western Drama and a Western Comedy that need to be objectively acknowledged--just like there are differences between a Crime Drama and a Crime Comedy, a Musical Comedy and a Musical Drama, etc. IMDb also seems very reluctant to add Drama as a genre for TV Western series, even with a explanation: 250316-202709-589000 Track Contribution 2025-03-16 20:27:09 "Wagon Train" (1957) Genres - 1 item added 250316-202551-086000 Track Contribution 2025-03-16 20:25:51 "Gunsmoke" (1955) Why are Westerns being treated in a very different way from other genres? P.S. You, and IMDb, may not want to admit that Drama and Comedy are "super genres,” but they are, whether you like it not, or whether I like it or not. As I have said before, genres began with the ancient Greeks, and have evolved, and will probably continue forever, even though you and I will not. Ask any beginning, child dramatics student, and one of the fist things learned is the Greek masks of Comedy and Tragedy.

The Silver Whip (1953) Take the Western elements out of a Plot Outline, and this is what you get: "Frustrated with the lack of opportunities in his hometown, young Jess Harker plans to leave, but a sympathetic coworker persuades his boss to give Jess a better job.” Sure sounds like a Drama to me. And, you can do the same with a Plot Summary. 250321-053537-083000 Track Contribution 2025-03-21 05:35:37 The Silver Whip (1953) Genres - 1 item added Or: Plot outline for The Badlands (1958), with Western elements excised: "Released from prison, ex-killer John McBain wants to go straight while ex-robber Peter Van Hoek seeks revenge, and their destinies eventually converge.” Oh, wait: The Badlands (1958) was a remake of The Asphalt Jungle (1950), which is a CRIME DRAMA! 250315-233555-854000 Track Contribution 2025-03-15 23:35:55 The Badlanders (1958) Genres - 1 item added Note: This comment was created from a merged conversation Link : https://community-imdb.sprinklr.com/conversations/data-issues-policy-discussions/genre-list-manager-try-this/67ddfa056e10775c8b7970c0 Title : Genre List Manager: Try this

Please explain, specifically: How is Drama accepted as a genre for “Shotgun Slade,” and NOT for “Laramie”? 250323-043702-063000 Track Contribution 2025-03-23 04:37:02 "Laramie" (1959) Genres - 1 item added 250323-043516-864000 Track Contribution 2025-03-23 04:35:16 "Shotgun Slade" (1959) Genres - 1 item added Is there any rational reasoning going on at all? Note: This comment was created from a merged conversation Link : https://community-imdb.sprinklr.com/conversations/data-issues-policy-discussions/genre-list-manager-im-begging-you/67e08fe7b7ace5002413fc79 Title : Genre List Manager: I’m begging you...

Re the famous John Ford-John Wayne cavalry trilogy -- Fort Apache (1949), She Wore a Yellow Ribbon (1949) and Rio Grande (1050 -- how is Drama accepted as a genre for Fort Apache and Rio Grande, and NOT for She Wore a Yellow Ribbon? 250323-202845-018000 Track Contribution 2025-03-23 20:28:45 She Wore a Yellow Ribbon (1949) Genres - 1 item added Please explain, specifically.

Most untrue statement on this thread: "the sole classification of Western would give viewers the clearest expectation of what to expect prior to watching the film.” MORE information always helps when wanting to know what to expect.

WHAT is the “accepted solution”?

Hi bradley_kent - We have moved all your recent genre posts under this single thread for consistency so that all the genre submission issues you raised are easily available under the same thread. I appreciate all the examples you provided where you have observed an inconsistency, and I have raised these with the appropriate team for visibility and review. In the meantime, I also observed within some of your submissions that sources (like BFI) were mentioned but no supporting links were included. While a text explanation is extremely helpful, we also require the source link. Going forward when submitting evidence, please be sure o also include the relevant source links.

The inconsistency is what is so consternating! Look below: some were accepted, while others were denied. There is no discernible patten. The guidelines seem to change for one title to another. Does it all depend on the whim of the processor? Submitted Updates x Reference Date/Time Summary 250326-165858-859000 Track Contribution 2025-03-26 16:58:58 Dallas (1950) Genres - 1 item added 250326-165517-012000 Track Contribution 2025-03-26 16:55:17 Springfield Rifle (1952) Keywords - 1 item added, 31 items corrected Genres - 1 item added 250326-164522-223000 Track Contribution 2025-03-26 16:45:22 The Hanging Tree (1959) Genres - 1 item added 250326-164146-659000 Track Contribution 2025-03-26 16:41:46 Man of the West (1958) Genres - 1 item added 250326-161320-303000 Track Contribution 2025-03-26 16:13:20 Pawnee (1957) Genres - 1 item added 250326-160755-688000 Track Contribution 2025-03-26 16:07:55 Man from God's Country (1958) Genres - 1 item added 250326-160317-451000 Track Contribution 2025-03-26 16:03:17 Gun Duel in Durango (1957) Genres - 1 item added 250326-155709-763000 Track Contribution 2025-03-26 15:57:09 "The High Chaparral" (1967) Genres - 1 item added 250326-155031-673000 Track Contribution 2025-03-26 15:50:31 "Have Gun - Will Travel" (1957) Genres - 2 items added 250326-154731-751000 Track Contribution 2025-03-26 15:47:31 "Laramie" (1959) Genres - 1 item added 250326-154208-529000 Track Contribution 2025-03-26 15:42:08 "The Rifleman" (1958) Genres - 1 item added 250326-015738-576000 Track Contribution 2025-03-26 01:57:38 "Broken Arrow" (1956) Genres - 1 item added And, yes, there seems to be a prejudice against adding Drama as a genre for Western TV series.

The inconsistency is what is so consternating! Look below: some were accepted, while others were denied. There is no discernible patten. The guidelines seem to change for one title to another. Does it all depend on the whim of the processor? Submitted Updates x Reference Date/Time Summary 250326-165858-859000 Track Contribution 2025-03-26 16:58:58 Dallas (1950) Genres - 1 item added 250326-165517-012000 Track Contribution 2025-03-26 16:55:17 Springfield Rifle (1952) Keywords - 1 item added, 31 items corrected Genres - 1 item added 250326-164522-223000 Track Contribution 2025-03-26 16:45:22 The Hanging Tree (1959) Genres - 1 item added 250326-164146-659000 Track Contribution 2025-03-26 16:41:46 Man of the West (1958) Genres - 1 item added 250326-161320-303000 Track Contribution 2025-03-26 16:13:20 Pawnee (1957) Genres - 1 item added 250326-160755-688000 Track Contribution 2025-03-26 16:07:55 Man from God's Country (1958) Genres - 1 item added 250326-160317-451000 Track Contribution 2025-03-26 16:03:17 Gun Duel in Durango (1957) Genres - 1 item added 250326-155709-763000 Track Contribution 2025-03-26 15:57:09 "The High Chaparral" (1967) Genres - 1 item added 250326-155031-673000 Track Contribution 2025-03-26 15:50:31 "Have Gun - Will Travel" (1957) Genres - 2 items added 250326-154731-751000 Track Contribution 2025-03-26 15:47:31 "Laramie" (1959) Genres - 1 item added 250326-154208-529000 Track Contribution 2025-03-26 15:42:08 "The Rifleman" (1958) Genres - 1 item added 250326-015738-576000 Track Contribution 2025-03-26 01:57:38 "Broken Arrow" (1956) Genres - 1 item added And, yes, there seems to be a prejudice against adding Drama as a genre for Western TV series. Some get it. Most don’t.