290 Messages
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6.6K Points
Cartoon Voices of the Golden Age, 1930-1970: Volume Two
This isn't a question, per se, it's just something I thought people (i.e. IMDb users and staff) should know about if they didn't already.
In 2022, after several decades of research, animation historian Keith Scott published a landmark two-volume work, Cartoon Voices of the Golden Age, 1930-1970, uncovering the history of theatrical cartoon voice acting from the 1930s to the 1960s. Back then, almost all cartoon voice actors went uncredited, so the author basically made it his mission to exhaustively mine every available resource to get accurate credits for all these hitherto-anonymous voices. Building off of research by past animation historians, he spent some thirty-two-odd years digging through archives and libraries, meeting with and interviewing major figures of the Golden Age of Animation, and collaborating with other researchers who were doing the same thing. The results is a staggeringly informative two-volume tome that, from what I can tell, has gotten nothing but good reviews.
The first volume is a written history of the art of voice acting during the Golden Age of Animation, which reads like basically like any other nonfiction historical work. The second volume, however, is a reference work consisting solely of 354 pages worth of voice acting filmographies/credits on a very large number of classic animated cartoons. A free 66-page sample can be viewed here. It should be noted that the credits included in this reference frequently contradict the credits that are currently shown on IMDb. The author himself even mentions this in a blog post announcing the book's publication. I quote (emphasis added):
After such a long wait I’m hoping it accurately answers a lot of your often asked questions. I’m also hoping it clears up a lot of bad facts that are out there… IMDb and Wikipedia still have many wrong names being bandied about in cyberspace, and people tend to accept the inaccurate stuff. And for some reason they are then very loath to change their opinion.
I've heard recently that IMDb has instituted a strictly-enforced, zero-tolerance policy preventing users from submitting any new uncredited voice acting roles under any circumstances. If this is true, that would make it literally impossible for regular users to use this resource to update IMDb's currently-existing credits. Nonetheless, I feel it is very important that IMDb look into its credit situation and do their damndest to see that it gets updated in accordance with the most up-to-date research, which, I feel, is in this book. I know of no other reference work that rivals this one in terms of comprehensiveness and thoroughness. Although I haven't yet read the entire thing, I already feel like it wouldn't be a bad idea for someone to go through the entire list of films in the second volume one by one and update IMDb's credits to match what's in the book. Before going through that effort, however, it needs to be established how IMDb would handle the situation in light of their current policies.
bderoes
Champion
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5K Messages
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117.6K Points
14 days ago
I now have volume 2 on Kindle, and would be willing to do some of the comparison of IMDb to the book. But not until we've been assured that we have the support of IMDb staff.
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Bethanny
Employee
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4.7K Messages
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50.1K Points
11 days ago
Hi @timothy_gray_el34lojg1aih1 and @bderoes -
We will ask our policy team if this would be an exception we can make, will keep you posted.
Thanks!
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timothy_gray_el34lojg1aih1
290 Messages
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6.6K Points
10 days ago
I've received my hardcover copy of the book today, so I'm finally able to look past the free 66-page preview. Having perused it, I suspect that in the approximately 20 months between the book's publication and now, some IMDb users have already been using this source to update credits, albeit in a haphazard fashion. Lillian Randolph, for instance, is a recent addition to the credits of John Henry and the Inky-Poo (1946). (As a matter of fact, it was my initial skepticism after noticing this recent addition that led to me discovering the existence of the aforementioned book.) However, it is clear that changes have not been applied completely and consistently. Some titles have yet to be updated at all, whereas others have only been updated partially and do not quite match what's in the book.
On some titles, the correct names are present, but they are not matched to the right character. In The Dover Boys (1942), for example, Marjorie Tarlton's role is represented on IMDb as "Various (voice) (uncredited)", whereas Keith Scott credits her as the voice of "Dora Standpipe", one of the main characters. On IMDb, the voice of Dora Standpipe is credited to Bea Benaderet, who does not appear on the cast list in Scott's book. This is one case (of which there are probably several) where one or more names may need to be deleted in order to match the credits given in the book.
Some issues are bound to arise which may need clearing up before edits can be made. For example, there are many names credited in Scott's book for providing the yodeling vocalizations heard in Disney's Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs (1937). Many of these names already appear on the IMDb page, but they are scattered about in a highly disorganized fashion. Some of them are part of the cast, others are in the music department, and still more can be found in the additional crew section with attributes such as "additional voices".
Another point that needs clarification is where to place live action models. Usually, these are placed in the additional crew section. However, Cinderella (1950) deals with this issue in a rather unusual fashion. The original opening credits contain a title card with the caption "With the Talents of" followed by a list of nine names. The title card only lists the names; it does not attach them to any characters. Interestingly, not all of these names are for voice actors; some of the names contributed both as voice actors and models, but at least two of them (Claire Du Brey & Helene Stanley) were live action models only. Their cast credits on IMDb appear with the attribute "(credit only)", while their names also appear in the Additional Crew section as live action models with the attribute "(uncredited)". This is a strange situation for these two names; in one section of IMDb's full credits page, they are shown with the attribute "credit only", implying that they were falsely credited for something they didn't actually contribute to. Meanwhile, in a more hidden section of the IMDb page, they are shown with the attribute "uncredited", indicating they did contribute to the film, but without receiving credit. Of course, the reality is that they did contribute and they received credit. The way this is shown on the IMDb page is confusing, to say the least. I had been aware of these "credit only" names on the IMDb page for some time, but up until just this moment, I did not understand what was going on there.
I can't find anything on the official help page clarifying IMDb's policy on live action models for traditionally animated films. Based on the fact that I almost always find these credits in the Additional Crew section, I assume that that is or was the preferred policy at some point. It is my opinion that IMDb should consider moving these credits from additional crew into the main cast. In some ways, the practice of animating based on the performance of a live-action model can be seen as a primitive precursor to the modern art of motion-capture, which has been well-established as something that belongs in the cast section just like any other performance. Having these names in the cast section with the attribute "live action model" would eliminate the need to have them appear twice on the same page.
(edited)
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