100 Messages
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1.1K Points
Can the verification process for "uncredited" credits be re-examined?
I work a lot as a dialogue editor (in post-production sound) for TV shows where I rarely get an on-screen credit. Most of the time, the only post sound credits you see are the sound supervisors and re-recording mixers; dialogue, ADR, Foley & SFX don't make it on-screen much. I've been told by IMDb that I need to provide one of the following 5 things as evidence to be verified as "uncredited" for a credit entry:
- Third-party news articles
- Call sheets
- Receipts
- Pay stubs
- Contracts
The problem is that there are many times when none of those 5 items are available. Unless your show is getting a ton of accolades, press articles aren't common. I'm not aware of ever receiving a call sheet in post-production (I believe they only do that in a production environment, my set dresser friends get them all the time). I'm not purchasing anything when I work, so receipts aren't ever created. Although my work on features does state the name of the show (most of the time) on pay-stubs, show titles don't make it onto paystubs for TV. Also on that point, I've worked full-time collectively for about 18 years at Technicolor, Deluxe and Paramount and never once was a show title put on a pay stub for the work I did. Lastly, contracts are only available if the show had me sign an NDA, which hasn't happened all that often.
I've learned by trial and error that IMDb now accepts contact lists for post-production crews. That definitely helps, but sound editors like me are sometimes asked to fill in for other sound editors and our names aren't necessarily added to the contact list. Another example is a pilot I just did; I requested a contact list but one wasn't created by the crew that I don't converse with (it's encouraged etiquette for me to stay transparent and let my supervisors conduct any contact with other crew outside of post sound). So if I'm not listed on a contact list, all I have are emails and texts. At one point, someone from your team told me to submit emails in my case (and I submitted emails for about 15 titles) and then another IMDb team member intervened and stated that emails weren't verifiable (something about "handles" was the reason).
So, for all of us post sound people that can't offer any of these items for evidence, can you accept anything else? Again, all I typically get are emails, maybe some texts, and a paycheck without show titles (my invoices typically have the show titles but they may be working titles or security code abbreviations). Being that emails are the primary form of evidence we could provide, can the policy be re-examined to include them somehow? Another idea that comes to mind would be a screenshot of the actual sound editing of the show from my workstation (computer). A lot of people post these screenshots on Linked In, and they don't show any still picture of the video content in order not to break NDA's. Could that be a consideration? Maybe that is what your team member Sophie meant by submitting "pictures"; I'll include a screenshot of Sophie's response to me which also mentions submitting emails between me and the staffs as evidence. It seems the process should be re-examined to accommodate feasible resources that we can actually offer for evidence.
Michelle
Employee
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18.2K Messages
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321.3K Points
3 years ago
Hi @hkpwnetd -
Thanks for your feedback regarding our "uncredited" evidence requirements. I understand the frustration, especially as there are limited options. To ensure accuracy, if a role is not credited within the on-screen credits, we need to validate the credit from a verifiable source. Concerning the customer support correspondence you referenced above, it is inaccurate that we will consider images or emails as verifiable evidence, my sincere apologies for the miscommunication.
If you don't have any call sheet, pay stub, or contractual documentation, there are a few additional options that I can suggest:
Regarding an image of your workstation as you are working on the edits for the title, this isn't verifiable on it's own merit (as technically, anyone can take a picture editing some form of content).
I hope some of these additional suggestions may be useful or worth a try, in the meantime, I have forwarded your feedback and comments to the applicable team for review and consideration of future evidence policy improvements.
(edited)
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hkpwnetd
100 Messages
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1.1K Points
3 years ago
@Michelle , thanks for your response and forwarding this info to the applicable team for more review. How can I follow up with that team?
Also, considering this problem isn't "sovled" yet (we haven't figured out an acceptable means for proof for the work I've done), can you please change the status of this thread to something more appropriate (whatever may be equivalent to "in progress")?
For clarity's sake, please understand this topic has to do with "post production" and not "production" as you mentioned "the production team" which is inaccurate (most likely the same reason why "call sheets" are being requested for post jobs, you're mixing up different phases). Generally, from the time a show goes into the actual shooting phase until the shooting is complete is considered the "production" phase, whereas all of the editing and sweetening (picture and sound) conducted afterwards is considered "post production". I'm elaborating on this since the terms seem to be incorrectly used in your response but are vital to the point of this thread. (I should also mention that the phase of work, like development, prior to any shooting is considered "pre-production".)
I'm now going to respond to your 3 suggestions in the order you presented them.
1. (This is assuming you meant the "post production crew") Asking post supervisors to enter my credits for me may seem like a solution, but rarely do they have the time and nor do most of them do this legwork (I've seen it happen more in features where they have more time, but not so much in TV because of how quick the post production phase is). I can ask again, but from my experience, this will reflect poorly on me (I will be a pest to my previous bosses that I rely on for future employment consideration) and IMDb (not accepting direct bonafide emailed statements from the supervisors validating my work). I'd prefer not to be an irritant to my bosses as I've already requested emails from them (already submitted to IMDb) when I was told by your team 3 months ago that that would be acceptable.
2. Your team had said previously that pay stubs don't matter unless they include the actual name of the show. Most of the TV shows I've worked on don't necessarily have the name of the company in the credits, they usually just list the sound supervisor and re-recording mixers (the irony of the mixers being that I usually spend almost double the time working on the shows than they do). Here are 2 features where I had to cut a bunch of the dialogue for the original versions (the only version of the content that the public views):
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt9248032/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_3_tt_6_nm_2_q_buttons
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8318284/
I have access to the 2nd title (The Legion) since I pay for (Amazon) Prime and can review the final credits. The history (for both features) is that Paramount Pictures bought them and corrections had to be made prior to release and/or licensing. The original post company Saban has their logo at the head and tail for the feature, whereas Paramount only tagged on their logo at the end. Here's a pic:
I worked full-time on staff for Paramount for over 4 years and they never listed any specific titles on my paychecks (I worked on a ton of content). Are you saying that if I simply show you a pay-stub from Paramount along with their logo at the end of the feature, that would be enough to get my credit entry approved?
3. No awards for these titles, just the work was done.
Thanks again for your response, and I hope we can reach a feasible solution.
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eboy
2.5K Messages
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69.2K Points
3 years ago
It’s still good to remember that this problem (your work is not credited) is not created by the IMDb. It’s never 100% guaranteed that IMDb will accept every ”(uncredited)” work out there, let alone that these credits would stay there (on the site) for the years to come. There have been several issues with dubbing mixers/re-recording mixers/etc in the past.
If you (and people in similar jobs) want any real change, you should talk to the producers/production companies/etc about crediting people that actually do some work for the movie.
(edited)
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