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When Indiana and his companions are exiting the Temple of the Sun after a chasm swallowed the Holy Grail, the Grail Knight who protected the Holy Grail for hundreds of years can be seen just before the temple is destroyed. As he motions goodbye to Indiana, he uses the Hitler salute. This is compounded by the music that plays while he is using the salute, which switches to the low notes and cymbals that are used when the Nazis appear on screen for the first time. But the Hitler Salute was not used until the 1930's, some 800 years after the Knight's birth. And nobody used the salute in front of the Knight, so it doesn't make sense how he would know about the salute and why he would use it (or speak English for that matter). But what is more baffling is why the director chose to have the knight use the salute in the first place, as it was clearly deliberate. Possibly the director was alluding to the connection between the Nazis and the Modern Knights Templar, though the knight in the movie is clearly from the Old Knights Templar, which existed well before the Nazis.

Anachronisms

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Champion

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15.8K Messages

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3 years ago

Sorry, I don't think anyone reasonably considers that a Hitler salute. It's just... a salute.

(edited)

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@Peter_pbn​ Yep. That's a basic/unenergetic wave goodbye. The arm isn't stiff enough/straight at the elbow and the fingers aren't tight enough to be considered a Nazi salute.

(edited)

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I refer you to my post below, with photos of other people giving Nazi salutes that look just like the Knight. And again, the music.... which is deliberate. Just like the actions of the actor, which are deliberate.... given that the director tells the actor what to do, and has the final say on where the music goes.

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@Tsarstepan​ I refer you to the photos I posted below, in which actual Nazis, including Hitler himself, don't have a stiff enough/straight at the elbow arm with fingers tight enough to be considered a Nazi salute. 

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@SirDredwick​ 

Context is important. In your own words, it wouldn't make sense for the knight to use a Hitler salute, and it would be a baffling choice for Spielberg to make. It is not reasonable to conclude that he did make that choice.

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@Peter_pbn​ It would make sense if you knew the connection between the Nazis and the Knights Templar. If someone doesn't know about the connection then they wouldn't understand. I wasn't going to use the post as an opportunity to educate the public on the relationship between the two. 

How about this.... why would the director choose to have the Knight make the gesture he made while a specific melody plays... a melody that has been used to introduce the Nazis.....? I ask you, since you think it is not reasonable to conclude that he made the choice I suggested. What is reasonable? Please keep in mind that the director is not some idiot that just told his actor to wave anyway he wanted and just told the sound department to play whatever music they wanted for that scene.

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@SirDredwick​ Even if you are correct about everything you are alleging, this would still be classified as an allusion rather than an anachronism, especially given the lack of conclusive evidence that this was intended (within the plot) to be a Nazi salute.

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@Peter_pbn​ Also, I direct you to the photos I shared below, which show people giving a similar wave, yet has been concluded by the media (and others) that the people are giving a Nazi salute. If it is not reasonable to conclude that the Knight is giving the same salute, even though there is a connection between the Nazis and the Knights Templar, even though the director chose a melody for that scene that is the same melody used when introducing the Nazis..... please tell me how it is reasonable for other people making the same gesture, without an accompanying soundtrack or relationship with Nazis, to be identified as making a Nazi salute? You think I'm not reasonable... fair enough, you have a right to your own opinion. But you seem to be the unreasonable one here.

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3 years ago

But what is more baffling is why the director chose to have the knight use the salute in the first place, as it was clearly deliberate. 

Often when someone feels the need to reinforce their point by arguing that something is "clear" (or in this case, "clearly deliberate"), it is probably not clear at all. I agree with the others that this was not intended to be a Nazi salute. This allegation of an anachronism strains credulity to the point of ridiculousness.

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@keyword_expert​ lol dude you should contact these news organizations and let them know how ridiculous they are for inferring that these people are making Nazi salutes. I mean, yeah... they are wearing swastikas and hanging out with Nazis, but they don't have their arm straight up into the air. Smh, silly half wannabe Nazis.

https://www.teenvogue.com/story/american-nazis-jewish-gangsters-history

https://www.nybooks.com/online/2020/07/25/when-is-a-nazi-salute-not-a-nazi-salute/

Here's Adolf Hitler himself, doing a Nazi salute while not doing a Nazi salute. Smfh, who does he think he is?!?!?

https://www.dw.com/en/austrians-lack-crucial-holocaust-awareness-study-finds/a-48564260


So many people not doing the Hitler salute while waving at Hitler.


I don't know what it takes to be a keyword expert, but I'm gonna guess it doesn't require history classes or watching a lot of Youtube photography videos.


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@keyword_expert​ Also, three people agreeing that the Knight's gesture isn't a Nazi salute does not make you anymore right/wrong than I. One of you three doesn't even know what a Nazi salute is (because he said it had to be something that it does not have to be).

I didn't need to reinforce my argument by saying its "clear". It is "clear" to me, especially because of the music that was used for the scene. I then asked a question as to why the director might have had his actor wave in the manner he did, with the music that was used. What seems more probable here is that you still have a bruised ego from our previous conversation, so you want to direct MORE personal criticism towards me, instead of keeping you responses free of arrogant exaggeration.

You know... as an expert that prides himself being an expert in the IMDB community, you could have simply said "I don't think its a Nazi salute because yadda yadda yadda". Instead, you issue a fallacious judgment on my need to say "its clearly deliberate" and imply that my opinion is flawed and ridiculous.

Again, you have failed in representing IMDB with professionalism and good character. You are no different than the rest of us... just another person trolling the boards, making negative comments towards people while arrogantly throwing around your opinion as if a badge on IMDB makes your opinion a higher standard than others.

Imagine, if us IMDB newbies had someone decent with sound moral character to look up to for advice when interacting with you, maybe these types of petty back-and-forth arguments would not ensue.

Thanks for sharing your opinion, ol' chum. 

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@SirDredwick​ 

TLDR

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@keyword_expert​ My apologies... the paragraph I wrote for my submission didn't seem to give you any troubles... I assumed another paragraph wouldn't be too much for your expert eyes. What you could do is simply look at the photos that I shared, like a chimpanzee or a ferret... you should be able to figure it out without having to read any words. 

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3 years ago

CBS seems to disagree with you. They seem to think that these pictures show people giving Nazi salutes. While the Knight's salute is not 100% on military point as Hitler and the Nazis, it is in position enough to be accepted by the news media when other people make the same gesture. Not to mention, which I already mentioned, if you watch the movie you will hear the exact same music progression used when the Knight says goodbye as when the Nazis first appear on screen.

Though, keyword_expert, I know from your previous comments that clear and obvious things tend to go over your head, even though you are staring straight into the sky.

"Staining credulity to the point of ridiculousness" is quite an exaggeration. 

Feel free to continue babbling though... you are an "expert" after all.



https://www.cbsnews.com/video/film-shows-queen-elizabeth-giving-nazi-salute-as-a-child/

https://www.cbsnews.com/video/students-appear-to-make-nazi-salute-in-controversial-prom-photo/

60 Messages

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3 years ago

I'm sure IMDB volunteer experts in keywords and Champion point havers know more about these things than the media though.

https://www.wvpublic.org/news/2019-12-30/governors-office-posts-summary-of-dmaps-investigation-into-nazi-salute-photo-announces-new-firings