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Thursday, May 26th, 2022 2:39 AM

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Another keyword to merge and redirect

Since movies and television series can cover an entire lifetime of a character, having a character's title included is a little weird. James Gordon isn't always the police commissioner in various Batman and related movies and series. I suggest that we merge the following keywords:

commissioner-gordon-character ---> james-gordon-character

Gordon isn't always the police commissioner but he is always James Gordon.

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3 years ago

I think I would oppose that merger/redirect.

There has been at least one other Commissioner Gordon character without the first name James.

Specifically, in this episode of Batman Beyond, James Gordon's daughter Barbara has retired as Batgirl and is serving as commissioner of the Gotham City police department:

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0519399/reference/

Given that point, it makes most logical sense to me to keep these two keywords separate, even though both keywords will need to be used for many titles.

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@keyword_expert​ 

Nevertheless, those keywords almost definitely are seen as barbara-gordon-character for Batman Beyond. The fact that the keyword could refer to two separate characters makes it a terrible keyword.

Edit: None of the 121 uses of commissioner-gordon-character are attached to Batman Beyond.

(edited)

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@adrian​ 

Nevertheless, those keywords almost definitely are seen as barbara-gordon-character for Batman Beyond. 

The character is listed in the credits as "Commissioner Barbara Gordon." The character is both a "barbara-gordon-character" and a "commissioner-gordon-character."

The fact that the keyword could refer to two separate characters makes it a terrible keyword.

To solve that problem (to the extent it is indeed a problem), the alternative would be to merge all instances of "commissioner-gordon-character" into "james-gordon-character," then permanently block "commissioner-gordon-character," and then create two separate keywords: "commissioner-james-gordon-character" and "commissioner-barbara-gordon-character." But then you would also have to keep at least "barbara-gordon-character" as a separate keyword, because Barbara Gordon is not the police commissioner in most appearances of the Barbara character. That starts getting pretty complex and potentially confusing to keep track of the different keywords.

None of the 121 uses of commissioner-gordon-character are attached to Batman Beyond.

But this keyword could be used for Batman Beyond. And for that reason, it would not make sense to permanently redirect the keyword "commissioner-gordon-character" to "james-gordon-character." 

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@adrian​ By the way, is it really such a bad thing for the keyword "commissioner-gordon-character" to potentially refer to more than one character?

After all, consider the character Robin, also in the Batman universe. Many different characters have gone under the name Robin, and they are all Robin characters, but are they really all the same character? Is the female version of Robin with the alter ego Carrie Kelley the same exact character as the male version of Robin with the alter ego Dick Grayson?  Although these are all Robin characters, they are arguably not all the same exact character.

Finally, it's worth noting that many (most?) titles list the character as "Commissioner Gordon" in the credits, rather than "Commissioner James Gordon." This is yet another reason why something may be lost to eliminate "commissioner-gordon-character" as a keyword.

(edited)

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2 years ago

Hi @adrian & @keyword_expert -

My apologies for the delayed response on this keyword request, I'm following up on older threads to help resolve any outstanding issues.

I'm not personally familiar with these titles or characters, however, based on the comments within this thread it seems plausible that the keyword "commissioner-gordon-character" is relevant to keep if there are on-screen characters with this credited name.

Unfortunately, we do not have a good way to distinguish keywords where a character name is common, such as between "commissioner-gordon" in Title A and "commissioner-gordon" in Title B.  However, as suggested above, in instances where a character is also known by a first name it would be useful to include that.  For example, in Dexter Detective Morgan is also referenced as Debra Morgan, so an acceptable character keyword would be "detective-debra-morgan-character".

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@Michelle​ 

My objection is mainly having the person's title in the keyword since it then gets applied improperly. I'm pretty sure I've seen it used in series that have James Gordon but where he is not the commissioner, like in Gotham. I would think this would go with the idea that actor's aren't credited with titles either, i.e. you wouldn't have "Rev. Jesse Jackson".

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@adrian

Good point.

Would this be a good solution?

1. Merge all current instances of "commissioner-gordon-character" into "james-gordon-character."

2. Permanently block "commissioner-gordon-character"

3. Going forward, distinguish between two separate keywords: "james-gordon-character" and "barbara-gordon-character." 

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@keyword_expert​ 

That would be my preference. Sorry. Sometimes I think I'm being clear because it is clear in my mind but I don't always communicate it well.

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@Michelle Looks like @adrian and I have come up with a solution that we both endorse. What do you think?

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2 years ago

The final suggestion in this thread has now been implemented, and the thread can be marked as solved. Yay!