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Champion

Champion

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2.1K Messages

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61.5K Points

Sat, Mar 2, 2019 12:12 AM

Someone changed some keywords and I'm curious which should be correct

As of a couple of days ago, there were keywords "black-panther-character" and "black-widow-character". Someone seems to have changed these to "black-panther-the-character" and "black-widow-the-character". This seems to be inconsistent and against the guide.

Per the guide: "-character Used to denote a character's appearance in a title. The formatting should be presented as the name of the character first, followed by "-character". So, for Star Wars, we'd list Han Solo as "Han-Solo-character". "

I have no idea why someone would add "the" into keyword as "-character" is a known special type of keyword.

Responses

559 Messages

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20.9K Points

2 y ago

I don't see why black-panther-character needed to become black-panther-the-character, but we may need to use the-character sometimes in keywords. Look at this list of the-character keywords, and you'll see that some of them would be confusing without the word the, e.g. goofy-the-character, wimpy-the-character, icon-the-character, speedy-the-character, etc.

I would prefer black-panther-(character), goofy-(character), wimpy-(character), etc., but IMDb long ago banished the parentheses from keywords. I wish they'd reconsider and bring them back. Wikipedia needs them for their article titles, and most keywords are like the titles of Wikipedia articles.

Employee

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1.2K Messages

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36.3K Points

2 y ago

Hi Adrian,

Thanks for your post.

I have corrected the keywords now to reflect our guide more accurately.

Have a great day.

Joel 

598 Messages

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14.9K Points

2 y ago

I am glad to see this issue raised, and to see the staff respond.  However, there in a problem with almost ANY universal keyword, since almost ALL keywords have exceptions.

The "-character" addendum works quite well for character names, especially those with a first and last name, but an exception is a character name that is also an adjective, i.e. goofy-character.  (Is that a character NAMED Goofy, or a character who IS goofy, silly, etc.)

Anther example: The "-character" addendum works well for a proper name, i.e. abraham-lincoln-character, but NOT for something like one-eyed-character.  (Is that a character NAMED one-eyed, or  a character who only has one eye?)

The guidelines should either note these exceptions, or should be revised to change the "-character" addendum to "-the-character" addendum.  The "-the-character" addendum could be more universally applied, although there are probably exceptions..

598 Messages

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14.9K Points

2 y ago

If "-character," as currently stated in the guidelines, is not to be changed into "-the-character" when it refers to a proper name, please convert all of the following to the currently preferred "-character" keyword:

q-the-character (11 titles) one-character (8 titles) character (92 titles) goofy-the-character (132 titles) pluto-the-character (127 titles) ratchet-the-character (59 titles) jazz-the-character (48 titles) rumble-the-character (47 titles) skywarp-the-character (44 titles) prowl-the-character (40 titles) flash-the-character (1 title) hound-the-character (35 titles) mirage-the-character (32 titles) ravage-the-character (31 titles) robin-the-character (32 titles) brawn-the-character (31 titles) honey-the-character (30 titles) blaster-the-character (28 titles) huffer-the-character (28 titles) gears-the-character (27 titles) joker-the-character (28 titles) ramjet-the-character (26 titles) dirge-the-character (24 titles) rollbar-the-character (24 titles) hook-the-character (24 titles) kup-the-character (22 titles) ro-tor-the-character (22 titles) thrust-the-character (22 titles) scourge-the-character (22 titles) skydive-the-character (21 titles) cyclops-the-character (21 titles) tracks-the-character (19 titles) warpath-the-character (19 titles) inferno-the-character (19 titles) hoist-the-character (19 titles) blurr-the-character (17 titles) air-raid-the-character (17 titles) sludge-the-character (17 titles) sky-lynx-the-character (16 titles) cyborg-the-character (20 titles) swindle-the-character (15 titles) brawl-the-character (15 titles) arcee-the-character (15 titles) riddler-the-character (14 titles) slag-the-character (14 titles) snarl-the-character (14 titles) wheelie-the-character (14 titles) iceman-the-character (14 titles) vortex-the-character (13 titles) dead-end-the-character (13 titles) samson-the-character (12 titles) tyke-the-character (12 titles) atom-the-characterninjor-the-character (12 titles) galactus-the-character (12 titles) swoop-the-character (11 titles) delilah-the-character (11 titles) impulse-the-character (11 titles) rocket-the-character (11 titles) two-face-the-character (11 titles) cosmos-the-character (11 titles) wedge-the-character (11 titles) bane-the-character (11 titles) penguin-the-character (11 titles) grapple-the-character (9 titles) frenzy-the-character (9 titles) hot-spot-the-character (8 titles) wimpy-the-character (8 titles) r.e.v.-the-character (8 titles) scrappy-the-character (8 titles) skyfire-the-character (8 titles) menasor-the-character (8 titles) groove-the-character (8 titles) hot-shot-the-character (8 titles) falcon-the-character (10 titles) w.a.r.s.-the-character (8 titles) hot-rod-the-character (8 titles) phoenix-the-character (8 titles) blades-the-character (7 titles) tantrum-the-character (7 titles) rampage-the-character (7 titles) octane-the-character (7 titles) brainiac-the-character (7 titles) unicron-the-character (7 titles) landfill-the-character (7 titles) butch-the-character (7 titles) vision-the-character (8 titles) icon-the-character (6 titles) blot-the-character (6 titles) brain-the-character (6 titles) blade-the-character (6 titles) venom-the-character (7 titles) ramhorn-the-character (5 titles) mammoth-the-character (5 titles) klarion-the-character (5 titles) psimon-the-character (5 titles) shimmer-the-character (5 titles) wasp-the-character (7 titles) strafe-the-character (5 titles) tow-line-the-character (5 titles) freeway-the-character (4 titles) goldbug-the-character (4 titles) chase-the-character (4 titles) roller-the-character (4 titles) speedy-the-character (4 titles) ratbat-the-character (4 titles) fixit-the-character (4 titles) arsenal-the-character (3 titles) oracle-the-character (3 titles) bizarro-the-character (3 titles) brick-the-character (3 titles) cookie-the-character (3 titles) buzzsaw-the-character (3 titles) cheetah-the-character (3 titles) mayor-the-character (3 titles) katana-the-character (3 titles) scamper-the-character (3 titles) man-bat-the-character (3 titles) misfire-the-character (3 titles) outback-the-character (3 titles) apeface-the-character (3 titles) hardhead-the-character (3 titles) mongul-the-character (3 titles) slapper-the-character (3 titles) lockjaw-the-character (3 titles) shocker-the-character (3 titles) rhino-the-character (3 titles) lobo-the-character (3 titles) wotan-the-character (2 titles) t-ai-the-character (2 titles) pipes-the-character (2 titles) punch-the-character (2 titles) rewind-the-character (2 titles) sky-byte-the-character (2 titles) tarzan-the-character (2 titles) slammer-the-character (2 titles) movor-the-character (2 titles) red-hood-the-character (2 titles) desaad-the-character (2 titles) hacker-the-character (2 titles) anarky-the-character (2 titles) skid-z-the-character (2 titles) it-the-character (2 titles) skids-the-character (2 titles) drift-the-character (2 titles) cable-the-character (2 titles) h.e.r.b.i.e.-the-character (2 titles) dracula-the-character (1 title) ai-chan-the-character (1 title) piglet-the-character (1 title) static-the-character (1 title) noah-the-character (1 title) neutron-the-character (1 title) famine-the-character (1 title) vykin-the-character (1 title) kobra-the-character (1 title) gaskunk-the-character (1 title) deadman-the-character (1 title) parasite-the-character (1 title) medusa-the-character (1 title) kelly-the-character (1 title) destiny-the-character (1 title) harm-the-character (1 title) x-car-the-character (1 title) igor-the-character (1 title) match-the-character (1 title) dreamer-the-character (1 title) ox-the-character (1 title) x-brawn-the-character (1 title) sauron-the-character (1 title) chemo-the-character (1 title) war-the-character (1 title) tula-the-character (1 title) bear-the-character (1 title) goliath-the-character (1 title) heptor-the-character (1 title) serifan-the-character (1 title) atom-man-the-character (1 title) toyman-the-character (1 title) j-four-the-character (1 title) despero-the-character (1 title) wizard-the-character (1 title) psyche-character (1 title) ubu-the-character (1 title) tonto-the-character (1 title) king-tut-the-character (1 title) aladdin-the-character (1 title) merlin-the-character (1 title) etrigan-the-character (1 title) airazor-the-character (1 title) storm-the-character (1 title) 

I have been, as guided, submitting corrections to the "-character" addendum, but this produces some astonishing results.  The most absurd is changing "pseudo-the-character" to "pseudo-character"!  Totally inane.

I once again appeal to the keyword list manager to revise the guidelines and convert the keywords with the "-character" addendum that refer to a character, factual or fictional, to "-the-character" addendum.

This would alleviate a lot of  confusion, including many other keywords that now have the word "character" in them, but do not refer to a proper name.  By converting all that refer to a proper name to the "-keyword" addendum, this merges a lot of keywords in lists and results only in confusion.

If the guidelines are so revised, I will work on the conversion of the "-character" addendum into the more appropriate "-the-character" addendum.  Otherwise, I retire from any such conversions involving the word "character" and leave the confusion and contradiction to current IMDb guidelines, and leave any other such corrections to others.

598 Messages

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14.9K Points

2 y ago

The original poster of this thread got a response.  How about me?

598 Messages

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14.9K Points

2 y ago

Instead of participating in a supposedly witty game of "tit-for-tat" that can deteriorate into the name calling of other contributors, I choose to apply John Dewey's Process of Reflective Thinking:

1. Locate and define the problem
2. Explore the problem
2. Suggest possible solutions to the problem
4. Test and evaluate each possible solution
5. Select the best solution

With that in mind, here's another possible solution:

Amend the Character guidelines so that it concludes with the following:

Exception:  When a character name is an adjective, or can be interpreted as an adjective, use the "-the-character" addendum instead of the "-character" addendum, i.e. "pseudo-the-character" instead of "pseudo-character."

Employee

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10.6K Messages

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242.4K Points

2 y ago

Hi Bradley -

As mentioned in our guide, the use of "-character" should only be applied to named fictional characters or fictional portrayals of real life people, such as "scooby-doo-character" and "bill-clinton-character", we should not be referring to named characters as "scooby-doo-the-character" or "bill-clinton-the-character".  Instances where you are seeing "-the-character" being used, should be corrected to the appropriate formatting.

For descriptive characters, as Adrian mentioned, we should be using more specific keywords when describing character attributes, so instead of "blind-character" we prefer more specificity, such as "blind-dog" or "blind-child", which better allows users to discover titles they are interested in.

598 Messages

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14.9K Points

2 y ago

Thanks for the response. Can the conversion of "-the-character" to "-character" be done by the staff, as requested above?

This statement of policy, however, still does nor consider a character whose name is an adjective, I.e. goofy-the-character instead of goofy-character.  

  • Also, to Adrian's comment, yes, we should be more specific, but often the specifics are not clear. In those cases, perhaps the noun version of the adjective should be used.  For example, instead of blind-character, use blindness.
One can, in fact, make a good case that, for almost all keywords, a noun should be used instead of an adjective.  An adjective can be used as a modifier, but a stand-alone adjective should be on the list of unacceptable keywords.

And, there also seems to be a preference for the "thing" rather than the "person."  If you have murder, there is understandably a  murderer and murder-victim.  If there is rape, there is no need for rapist and rape-victim.  If there is gambling, there is no need for gambler.  Etc.

What do you think?

P.S. I realize that there are always exceptions.


Employee

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10.6K Messages

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242.4K Points

2 y ago

Hi Bradley -

Rest assured that I did run the conversation by our editors, and we prefer to retain the use of "-character" for named character keywords.

When a character's name is an adjective, such as character names from "Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs": Sleepy, Sneezy, Grumpy, etc., these characters should still be listed with the attribute mentioned above (sleepy-character, sneezy-character, grumpy-character).  If a film features a character who has a grumpy disposition and you want to capture this in a keyword, you should enter the keyword with the adjective followed by the noun, such as: grumpy-old-man or sneezy-dog.

I hope this helps clarify our listing preferences!

598 Messages

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14.9K Points

2 y ago

Thanks.  I will, of course, adhere to this guideline.

Can the staff correct the keywords that I mentioned above?

Champion

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3.7K Messages

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77.4K Points

2 y ago

Hi Bradley Kent,

I've now converted the 5,700 incorrectly formatted "-the-character" keywords to the correct "-character" format. I've also put in some internal mappings to convert these to the correct format for other new additions.

Regards,
Will

598 Messages

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14.9K Points

2 y ago

Thanks.  I still disagree with this decision since it adds a lot of  confusion, but I will be diligent about the issue and work ot conform when I find relevant mistakes.  Thanks, again.

598 Messages

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14.9K Points

2 y ago

Resolution rocks!  Now, about these other keyword problems...