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Giancarlo_Cairella's profile

Thu, Feb 4, 2021 7:52 PM

New rule regarding the display of Chinese/Asian names

New rule regarding the display of Chinese/Asian names

Until recently, our name formatting rules included a paragraph outlining a requirement to submit Chinese/Asian names in Western format (i.e. “family name, first name”). For example, actor Chow Yun-Fat was listed on the site as Yun-Fat Chow (because "Yun-Fat" is the family name)

We have now removed this requirement. Effective immediately, when adding a new name or correcting an existing one, please enter it in the same format it’s supposed to be shown (e.g. “Chow Yun-Fat”) and/or in the way preferred by the person to whom it refers (if known) and our submission system will change it so that it is properly stored and displayed.




 

Responses

forthehorde

251 Messages

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2.8K Points

25 days ago

This is great change.

Have a question, what about "Preserve previous name on existing credits" box when making a correction? Using it does not make sense. And would make pages ugly.

Employee

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334 Messages

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40.2K Points

When updating those names to the new format, the 'Preserve previous name' box should not be checked.

251 Messages

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2.8K Points

Thanks for the info. How to prevent or what to do if editors override that decision which they do a lot? What kind of explanation would help to prevent such mistakes?

7.2K Messages

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169.2K Points

Right, it's as though the wording of this policy never made it past the rough draft phase. Until this matter thoroughly sorted out, it is only appropriate to treat the policy as a sudden Kafkaesque ban on adding or editing Chinese names and Korean names at all, especially seeing as how nothing seems to have been done in regards to names already present in the database. I don't even know how Japanese names factor into this, because there is a general convention that Romanization of Japanese names entails placing the given name before the family name. We don't do this with Chinese names and Korean names, though.

251 Messages

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2.8K Points

25 days ago

https://help.imdb.com/article/imdb/discover-watch/why-do-you-list-chow-yun-fat-s-name-as-yun-fat-chow/GN9YJLP8SDHTE5WL

This page might use an update?

btw your post says "because "Yun-Fat" is the family name" when it is the opposite?

(edited)

Employee

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334 Messages

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40.2K Points

Yes, that help page is obsolete and is scheduled for removal. Apologies for the confusion.

251 Messages

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2.8K Points

It looks deleted now, your first post in this thread still has something in reverse tho: because "Yun-Fat" is the family name

7.2K Messages

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169.2K Points

25 days ago

Unless I'm mistaken, I'm a little disappointed that a change to the formatting rules has been undertaken instead of the system being upgraded in such a way that ensures every person's the family name would be displayed before his or her given name, in cases where it would appropriate, even though the names are stored with the family name followed by a comma followed by the given name. As I understand it, this would require an additional data field (i.e. a column) in the filmography item data type, or an equivalent hack. Why not simply provide a way for contributors to override the aspect of the submission form related to the bit about "The following fixes have been applied automatically" (which happens whenever a comma is omitted from the name field)? On a side note, why not provide a way for contributors to input names that contain single-letter names?

251 Messages

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2.8K Points

Good points, maybe something like a new data field that could be submitted to the name pages that will define the display of the name would be a better solution than to change stored names, right?

Kinda something like some keywords affecting the display of some titles.

7.2K Messages

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169.2K Points

Exactly! We know that IMDb has a team that can implement these kinds of things.

1 Message

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90 Points

5 days ago

Most asian/arabic/eastern-european people do not have an official english translation of their names, so there are many people listed on the IMDb that are the same people only under different spellings or one does not find the correct name. There should be a text field for names that allows contributors to add the original name signs/letters like an a.k.a.-section for those names and their pronounciations in different languages like it has been done with the movie titles (if there is no official translation from the person or movie title itself). With the original signs/letters a name or a movie title would be found better or sometimes even at all.
For example: Chow Yun-Fat's original name is 周潤發 - spoken it would be Zhōu Rùn Fā, so not quite the displayed name. But there has been established an international name by media/agents or the person to spell him Chow Yun-Fat. That would be his imdb display name.
Some people have the same original name like 周, but some are spelled Chow, some are spelled Zhou, so it is very difficult to find those people in the database. That's why I propose to establish a db-text field for the original name signs/letters.

7.2K Messages

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169.2K Points

For the longest time, IMDb has had problems storing text in a charset other than 128-bit ASCII, and apparently the problems partially still exist, but there is increasing amounts of support for other scripts, interestingly via UTF-8.

19 Messages

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446 Points

18 hours ago

The “/Asian” is extremely vague as to what comes under this rule and what doesn’t.

What about Japanese names? English Wikipedia and The Movie Database put these by default with the family name last, except with pre-Meiji names and art names of performers of traditional Japanese arts. But the Japanese government is pushing for them to romanised in the order they are pronounced in Japanese (in which the family name is usually first) and some bodies with links to the government like the NHK, UniJapan (including with their JFDB, which is a good resource for finding out the order names are pronounced in Japanese) and various countries’ branches of the Japan Foundation follow this rule.

What about Hungarian names, in which the family name comes first, but which are not Asian?

What about mixed Asian/Western names, like Kang Daniel and Jackie Chan? These are most often written with the family name last, but not always: Kang Daniel is always romanised officially with the family name (Kang) first.

What about people with completely East Asian names but whom live or lived primarily in countries where family names normally come last, like Sessue Hayakawa, Gok Wan, Kazuo Ishiguro or Yoko Ono?


How should the second syllable of a two-syllable name separated by a hyphen be capitalised? Both English Wikipedia and The Movie Database specify that the second syllable should by default not have a capital letter (e.g. Chow 
Yun-fat), the only exceptions being when it can be proved that the capitalised form is preferred by the person, or is otherwise official or the form conventionally used in English. The example suggests that capitalising both syllables is preferred, but there is no clear statement either way on this issue.

And what about character names – does the change affect them at all?

am really glad that IMDb is doing something about this, though my enthusiasm might not show from what I’ve written above, as it will eliminate all those “(as …)” attributes which only differ in name order being added and mean that cinemas which copy information from IMDb will be getting these names in the correct order. But such a drastic change in policy as this needs a detailed explanation of what it affects and does not to accompany it.

(edited)

7.2K Messages

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169.2K Points

I find it problematic that the IMDb company didn't bother to open up a discussion on these matters prior to amending the policy concerning them. I've complained before about them doing things like this. What really needs to be done is an overhaul whereby the proper display can be customized or something halfway to that effect in such a way as that it still clear which name part is the family name and which name part is the given name. Alphabetical ordering of people by full name factors into why one part of a name is distinguished from the other, but glyph-based languages do not have an alphabet nature. This "quick fix" breaks the ordering system where by family name takes precedence over given name.