levo_jcszv2w0owzff's profile

4 Messages

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100 Points

Mon, Aug 24, 2020 3:05 PM

Lobster - Cast list is a mess

The IMDB as it is, sucks on many of the movie cast lists. I tried correcting some, providing text explanations. All I get is "declined" because they cannot verify it. I saw places where addition of screen grabs is mentioned but the screen I get is text only and doesn't allow me to paste any jpeg (or other) files.
An example is The Lobster. Colin Farrell is clearly the star and number one credit to this movie and you see his picture on his own on the IMDB's own poster. So, wouldn't one expect him to be the no 1 credit (and he is in the movie) but where does it appear on IMDB? As #7!
In many movies, there is a main credit list with all the main stars getting a full screen recognition and then after all that a "and this is everybody else" list. Despite saying they recognize this and treat it as a single list, IMDB seems to latch onto this "everybody else" list in many of the movies I have checked!!! Basically they are missing the forest for the trees and appears to be adamant not to correct it!!!
Very frustrated as I spent effort trying to get these corrected and all in all ended up wasting my time.

Champion

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2.2K Messages

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62.8K Points

1 y ago

The Lobster cast is as it appears on screen during the final roll of credits which is in order of appearance. (At least, that is my memory from watching it a while back.)

IMDb credits reflect what is on screen from the most complete credits, which in most modern movies is in the end credit rolls.

4 Messages

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100 Points

1 y ago

Vylmen, Adrian an Dijec, many thanks for your replies and comments. :-)
I had seen the credit information and it recognizes there may be cases where where the list may appear in multiple places. I believe Lobster somewhat fits into this:
  • Acting credits are ordered according to the most comprehensive cast list (the one listing the most actors); in most cases, this will be the list appearing in the end credits.
  • In some cases (i.e., TV movies), the cast list is split between the opening credits and end credits; in those cases, the two portions should be treated as one long cast list that happens to be interrupted by the actual movie. This also applies to some movies from the 1950s, where a list of the main cast appeared at the beginning, and was then repeated in reverse order at the end, with pictures, followed by additional cast members.
In the Lobster movie, credits for the main characters come right after "The End/Movie name" -> the director -> Colin Farell -> Rachel Weisz _....->  then producers etc and then way later (long after I would have left the theater) there is an alphabetical cast list, including the main stars. To me this whole sequence right after the "The End" bit is a list of credits and in this case Colin Farrell is #1 in that list.
Similar thing happens in many movies, there are the main actor names, initially taking the full screen each, than 2 to the screen and at the end, the extras in a rolling list. Basically, if you follow the IMDB logic of only including stars if they are in a list format, you can end up with  the cast only including the extras!! What kind of logic is this?
My problem is that when you go to a movie page, IMDB themselves chose to have a system similar to the one used in the Lobster, short list of the "first billed cast" and than a backup page with the full list.
The Cast section in the main page would be what a casual visitor looks to see the main cast and then a secondary page that includes the "full cast" for the detail seekers. The problem is, it doesn't include the main stars and in this case while Colin happens to be on it, the co star (Rachel Weisz) is not on that page. Many automated data search engines, like the casual visitor, would assume all the key players are on that list and don't bother looking at the full cast.
As a minimum, all the "Stars" of the movie should be included in that front list. Otherwise, we may have a difficult time explaining the logic of this to the likes of Mr Spock and one could end up braving a raised eyebrow!...





Champion

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2.2K Messages

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62.8K Points

This is not the case where the cast is split. That would imply that some of the previous credits were not repeated in the final scroll which is not the case.

The Lobster, like virtually every movie made in the past 40 years has credits that list the stars, either in the beginning credits, the end credits or both and then has a complete scrolling cast list. This film decided to credit actors in order of appearance. This is fairly common.

I'm not sure why after reading the cast guidelines you think that something should be changed.

Edit: I've been a top contribute for 4 years. In that time of editing hundreds, if not thousands of movies, I can only remember a single case of a feature film (not a TV movie) where an actor was listed in either the beginning or end credits and was not listed in the credit scroll.  That is A Christmas Story where Peter Billingsley is listed in the beginning credits but no the end scroll.

Champion

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834 Messages

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46.4K Points

I agree with Adrian. I've submitted lots of cast lists and I can barely remember a few cases where one/some of the principal actors are listed in either the beginning titles or individual cards at the first part of the ending credits, but then excluded from a subsequent full list where most principal actors are repeated.

Here are two examples I sent 7 years ago (note that order numbers follow the former numbering system):




I think guidelines should be more clear about ordering numbers in documentaries, though, because sometimes it can be a hell; for instance...


4 Messages

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100 Points

1 y ago

Hi guys, thanks for all the responses.
I don't think my problem is with the rules that govern the detailed/full cast list and I don't want to argue about that.
It is to do with my expectation that, IMDB having "Internet" in the title will give me some independent,  "useful" information and not just reflect some list generated by the movie industry's in-fights.
The key question here is, what do you individually want, expect, hope to see in terms of cast when you click on a movie title? I personally want to see the names in screen time order, so I know who the main characters are.
Right now, the main page has
1- A line for Stars squeezed in at the top, that can have no more than a few names.
2- A subset of the cast, named Cast.
My problem is with this #2. What purpose does it serve?  In its current form, why is it even included?
Now, when I see a shorter list of names, upfront, I expect this to be a summary of the lot. Imagine you were reading an abstract of an article that was just the first paragraph of a 200 page document.
This is what that front page Cast list is as it is now.  
I don't know you guys but if I see a partial list, I expect it to be something more than the first 15 names of a randomly ordered long list.
I expect it to be the 15 defining characters of the movie! It could be open to debate whether that should be in alphabetical,  screen time or some other order. It is easy to add a "sort list" option anyway.
But my main frustration today is that with what IMDB gives me, there is no way of identifying who the main characters in a movie are.