R

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856 Points

Fri, Apr 15, 2022 5:58 PM

No Status

"Declined." Again. (This is idiotic.)

15 April 2022
#220415-013913-169000

Another in my long list of declined submissions. 

Another one that can't be backed up by a screen grabs. Not that screen grabs work, in my experience. 

Watching a TV show from 1980 and an actor whose voice I recognise can be heard on the soundtrack. He has a couple of lines of dialogue, that's all. But it's clearly him. I like this guy, so it's a nice surprise as I had no idea he was in this. I spent the rest of the episode waiting for him to appear, but he doesn't. And he's not credited. 

However, he's the main guest star the next episode. (It's a two-part story.

Seems pretty darn clear, to me, that he should be added to the IMDb listing for that episode. Two other actors already have "(voice)(uncredited)" listings. And a further 4 actors have "(uncredited)" listings. 

Therefore, using common sense and critical thinking, you'd imagine it would be easy to get this guy added, as well. He's guest starring in Part Two of the story, after all, and the listing already has 6 uncredited actors included. 6!! 

But, no, that's not how IMDb works. 

I'd love to know who the people are at the other end. The people who actually read these contributions and make these idiotic decisions. Do they know anything about TV shows of the 1980s, for example? I'm serious. Frequently - but not this time - I include paragraphs of explanatory text with my contributions. But they still get declined. It's like trying to explain the internet to a kitten! 

I didn't bother with reams of explanatory text this time, because... what's the point? Honestly. What. Is. The. Point? It never works anyway. 

SoCalGrace

117 Messages

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1.8K Points

4 m ago

Love your post! :)

The only thing I can think of for this particular issue is that there's no PROOF of whose voice was heard. It doesn't matter that you *think* you recognize the actor's voice--there are VERY GOOD voice impersonators you know. So not only is that a possibility in this case, but also that a different actor just happened to sound like the one you're thinking of. I've had that happen, specifically with Edgar Buchanan, whose voice was very distinct and you'd think very easily recognizable, but I was wrong. I heard who I thought was Buchanan speaking in some old show I had on in the background, and I looked up expecting to see him, but it was someone else entirely. I was stunned. I would've bet money it was him.

But I digress...

In your case, unless proof--solid proof, such as a script from the episode that includes all the actors' names--can be found, I hate to say this...because I'm rarely on IMDb's side in situations like this, I don't think they should add it.

59 Messages

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856 Points

@SoCalGraceReally?!!

Even though that same actor plays that that same character in the second part of the story?!!

Your theory is that they hired a different actor to play the character for a couple of lines of dialogue!!! Even though they had already hired this actor to play the character in a two-part episode?!! 

I'm sorry, but that's ridiculous. 

It's a 2-part episode of The Incredible Hulk. At the end of Part One, the Hulk has been captured and we hear a military commander giving orders to his men. At the start of Part Two, we see the military commander for the first time. And it's Monte Markham, whose voice was clearly heard in Part One. 

Sometimes in Part Two, we hear Markham's voice but we don't see him. Do you honestly believe that that's not Markham either? Do you honestly believe they hired a different actor to play the character in voice-only scenes? 

How do you think that even works? Why would a budget-conscious TV show spend extra money on a different actor for absolutely no reason?! Also, I'd love to be in the room for those discussions with Mr. Markham and his agent. "Thank you for your work, Mr. Markham. It's been great having you on-set this week. However, we've decided not to use your voice in some scenes. Instead, we're hiring a voice impersonator who sounds exactly like you." "Why are you doing that?" "Well, because he sounds exactly like you." "Huh?!" "Yes, we feel it's the best way to go. And we have all this extra money to spend." 

I'm sorry, but that's ridiculous. 

Hey!! Maybe, it's not even Monte Markham on camera!  Maybe, they hired a lookalike to appear on camera and used the voice-over guy to record all the dialogue. Yes. That's a viable theory!! There are VERY GOOD lookalikes, you know. 

I'm sorry but the obvious answer here is that the same actor played the same character in both episodes. 

SoCalGrace

117 Messages

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1.8K Points

Sorry, but if anyone's being ridiculous, it's you! :)  It's MUCH, MUCH cheaper to hire a voice-over actor who sounds like Famous Actor X for a couple of lines, than to have Famous Actor X come in--and get paid HIS rate--for those few words of off-screen dialogue.

Besides, I was simply presenting some possible reasons why IMDb won't approve your submission. As I said, without actual PROOF we don't know that the voice you think is Markham's really is! Arguing with me won't change that FACT.

Have you really never heard of a situation where an actor died, and a sound-alike impersonator was hired to re-do or touch up dialogue in post-production? It happens. If that can happen, so can what I'm suggesting. And the bottom line remains that we don't *KNOW* that it was Monte Markham, despite circumstantial evidence [his appearance in the following episode].

59 Messages

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856 Points

@SoCalGrace​ Look, it's a bonkers theory. 

Markham clearly did the looping on both episodes. 

SoCalGrace

117 Messages

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1.8K Points

He very well may have. Or not. And that's my point. And until you can *prove* he did, IMDb should not accept the submission.

59 Messages

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856 Points

@SoCalGrace

Are you aware of abductive reasoning? Sometimes called the "duck test" - as in: "If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck." In short, it means that the obvious answer is probably the right answer. In this case, it seems pretty obvious given all the evidence that the actor on the soundtrack is the same actor seen in the second half of the story. It just seems much more likely. 

The idea that they randomly hired someone else to sound exactly like the actor just doesn't seem very likely. It just doesn't. Sorry. 

We each have a theory. You and I. Which one of us is probably correct? 

Well, let's be objective. 

1. I watched these two episodes the night before last. I have them on DVD and I watched them, back to back. 

Can you say the same? If not, then there is a better chance that I am right in my theory. 

2. I like Monte Markham's work. A lot. I'm currently watching/reviewing episodes of his 1973 TV series "The New Perry Mason" for my blog. And I watched his 1971 TVM "Death Takes a Holiday" a couple of months ago. So, I've already watched several hours of his work this year, so far. 

Can you say the same? If not, then there is a better chance that I am right in my theory. 

I admire your passion, but your are debating about something you (probably) haven't seen this week. And I've stating a case for something I have watched this week and know a reasonable amount about. I didn't even know Markham was in this story beforehand. I just recognised his voice, that's all. I cannot over-stress this enough. I recognised his voice. Then, a few minutes later, there he was on screen.

  • "Gosh," I said. "That sounds like Monte Markham. Is he in this?" 
  • And then, a few minutes later. "Gosh. Monte Markham is in this!" 

The actor who gets the on-screen credit and who appears on-screen is the mostly-likely person to be the one we are listening to, on the soundtrack. That's abductive reasoning. There's no reason to assume it's not him. 

Yes, Peter Marinker famously dubbed Sam J. Jones in Flash Gordon. Yes, Rich Little famously imitated Stacy Keach for the Mike Hammer TV show. It happens when there are problems. But you don't just go around assuming that the actor you hear isn't the one you see. It's not the way these things are done in the day-to-day running of a production. I have enough behind-the-scenes books on TV shows to know that producers don't have the budget to randomly hire extra actors for no good reason. You hire an actor, you use them, that's it. 

Again, though I do find it strange that you passionately debating something you (probably) haven't seen in the last 48 hours, the fact that you are actually willing to talk about this means you care more about accuracy on IMDb than any IMDb editor I've ever encountered. I respect that. I really do. 

But I just can't give credence to your theory. It doesn't fit the known facts, so I just can't go with it. (But it's nice to chat about this with someone who cares.) 

Employee

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14.1K Messages

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277.9K Points

4 m ago

Hi RikerDonegal -

I reviewed the submission and can see that the voice credit was declined because it was "uncredited", which generally makes the credit listing ineligible (primarily because it is difficult to verify voice performances when an individual is not credited on-screen).  We make rare exceptions to this policy if the performance is by a top performer and the voiced role is widely reported in the media.

For more information on our Voice credit policy I encourage you to review our Help Guide.

Cheers!

59 Messages

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856 Points

@Michelle​ I'm happy it's been fixed. But, really, it shouldn't be this difficult to fix simple stuff. It really shouldn't. The system is broken.