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marco's profile

Tue, Aug 13, 2019 10:24 AM

Birth names no longer a useful section of the database?

I just noticed this article https://www.imdb.com/news/ni62580914 that links to this article https://variety.com/2019/film/actors/imdb-alters-policy-publication-birth-names-1203300451/. I just want a staffer to respond to this news. Is it true that IMDb allows birth names to be completely to be deleted from the database, nowhere to be found? If this is not true, that's good. If this is true, the database has been compromised and IMDb has made a step in the wrong, Orwellian direction.


Responses

Employee

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336 Messages

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40.3K Points

2 y ago

Thank you for sharing your concerns about our new policy

As documented on the site, we will now review requests to remove a birth name from a person's biographical details if the birth name is not broadly publicly known (i.e. it's not already widely recognized and available elsewhere through sources such as major reference sites or publications) and if the person no longer voluntarily uses it (i.e. only uses their birth name when compelled to do so by government/legal requirements, but not in other aspects of their daily or professional life).



Names listed in filmography credits for titles in which the person was credited under their birth name will continue to be displayed. This is in order to continue providing IMDb’s hundreds of millions of customers worldwide with comprehensive information about film and TV credits, thereby preserving the factual historical record by accurately reflecting what is listed on-screen.


1.9K Messages

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62.7K Points

As documented on the site, we will now review requests to remove a birth name from a person's biographical details if the birth name is not broadly publicly known (i.e. it's not already widely recognized and available elsewhere through sources such as major reference sites or publications) and if the person no longer voluntarily uses it (i.e. only uses their birth name when compelled to do so by government/legal requirements, but not in other aspects of their daily or professional life).


So what you're saying is that birth names can be removed, even if they're factual?
Doesn't that go against the fundamental concept of a database? Isn't IMDb undermining IMDb here?

1.9K Messages

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62.7K Points

They are  transsexual .

Maybe I missed something, but I don't believe anybody said they aren't.

REMOVE THE DEAD NAMING YOU HAVE PLAGUED THEM  WITH FOR 15 FKING YEARS.

Shouting and cursing is rather unbecoming.

You have been the single source of harassment for transgender community

You have quite some nerve accusing a database that publishes data of harassment. If you don't want a database stating facts, I genuinely feel sorry for you.

Is this as joke?

That's what I thought when I first heard about this ridiculous policy change, but for a totally different reason.


That is the biggest joke of all.

Are you saying that you know what it is all these hundreds of millions of people look up while they're on IMDb?

You are a fan site

Database.

you use IMDB Pro to extort money out of people simply to control their own data.

You don't have to use IMDbPro you know. If you deserve an IMDb name page, you will get one. And on regular IMDb, your name and some information about you will be visible, whether or not you have IMDbPro doesn't change that.

to abuse them

Why do you consider it abuse that a database stores birth names of the people in the database? There's no shame in one's birth name. It's the name one is given around the time of their birth, nothing more, nothing less. There is no abuse in stating the fact of one's birth name, and especially not for a database.

505 Messages

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19.7K Points

2 y ago

I'm in favor of IMDb allowing workaday non-celebrity actors and crew to remove personal information, such as birth names and ages, from the database. Anyone can make a YouTube video and put in on IMDb. What's to stop someone from thanking an enemy in his YouTube video, which allows him to create an IMDb name page for the guy, and put out his personal information?

But IMDb is only allowing the removal of one kind of personal information. And they're doing it because they caved in to a pressure group. I'm against caving in to pressure groups.

I hope IMDb notices that they gained NOTHING through this decision. One of the pressure groups is already calling the decision "a half-measure." The more they cave in, the more the pressure groups will demand more caving.

54 Messages

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1.7K Points

That’s exactly what I’m afraid of

45 Messages

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1.2K Points

IMDb gets used as a resume in the entertainment industry, and the previous policy assisted discrimination of trans people in the industry. Lots of people who are "workaday non-celebrity actors and crew" were negatively affected by IMDb's previous policy. Also, IMDb assisted in discrimination, and to an extent still does, of people who work additional jobs outside of the entertainment industry as "workaday non-celebrities," along with other issues such as housing discrimination.

505 Messages

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19.7K Points

My position is that IMDb should allow workaday non-celebrity actors and crew to remove personal information from the database if it did not appear in film credits.

Champion

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3.6K Messages

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230K Points

Emma Arpin, just my five cents but I always thought of IMDb being used as a resume as a side effect. It was and is, first and foremost, a database. So from my point of view the process is a bit similar to, say, taking a dictionary or encyclopedia, or an archive and replacing all the legit info with resumes, with no discretion as to whether those are correct or not. It happened before you know. It, with people like Quentin Tarantino falsely putting credits/roles in Dawn of the Dead (1978) and King Lear (1987) on his resume, knowing they would be a hard thing to verify. They then ended up being on  Leonard Maltin's Movie and Video Guide and are still surface from time to time as a false fact. That is exactly what happens when people mostly treat databases and encyclopedias as promotional instruments. 

1.9K Messages

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62.7K Points

2 y ago

I'm a strong supporter of (film/TV/video games) cast & crew credits, trivia and all the other info related to actual filmmaking process. People should recognize the historical value of IMDb, it's already huge. IMDb is not a CV or resume service (altough, as said many times before, people can of course use the site for that) and it shouldn't be controlled by agents, PR people, "Hollywood" executives or any "pressure groups" (all this generally speaking - there are total professionals in every area).

But sure, I can see the various problems related to information such as birth dates, residence, the names of a spouse and children, info of ex-wives-husbands/girl-boyfriends, divorces, criminal record issues (since now even an accusation seems to be enough - people want to add that to trivia or to biography), etc. Also "biography" is one of those areas where problems can arise quite easily. I personally feel that there's a difference between "biography" and "professional biography" and I support the latter.

I don't have any real answers, however, and I'm not sure that is this decision a good or bad thing for IMDb (maybe a bit of both?). But I do understand some issues behind it. Internet is a pretty nasty and dark place, especially nowadays. IMDb shouldn't give any additional "tools" for abuse. At least they should be very cautious with biography/trivia/etc information that is considered more "personal" than "professional" (there's a very fine line sometimes, but it's often there).

795 Messages

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23.6K Points

Your comment that "IMDb is not a CV or resume service" is wrong because of imdbpro. What's funny is I almost was going to comment yesterday regarding that the only reason this occurred is because imdb now gets paid by some. If it didn't, I bet the names would be there forever. Not saying if that's right or wrong, just the way it is.

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62.7K Points

It’s not really wrong, since IMDB and IMDbPro are two different things. The latter is a paid service with certain benefits. It’s always best to talk about ”IMDbPro” if you refer to that service.

45 Messages

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1.2K Points

IMDbPro pulls from the same database.

54 Messages

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1.7K Points

2 y ago

Hopefully a staffer can come in and answer this question but now because of this new policy, will these following articles be updated or will they remain the same?

https://help.imdb.com/article/contrib...#

https://help.imdb.com/article/contrib...#

https://help.imdb.com/article/contrib...#

54 Messages

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1.7K Points

2 y ago

I read in another thread that iMDb is already in the middle of some california litigation to possibly remove ages too?

Champion

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5.6K Messages

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254.2K Points

Yes, but so far IMDb has been successful in that case. The State of California passed a law which would have required IMDb to remove birthdates in some cases. IMDb sued to have the law declared unconstitutional, and the district court found in favor of IMDb.

The case is on appeal, though. There will be a hearing in the Court of Appeals next month.

In case you are looking for more information about that case, it is called IMDb.com, Inc. v. Becerra.

54 Messages

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1.7K Points

Ok so now there might be another thing that people can request to be removed, if imdb does not win this case.. uugh jesus, what next?

54 Messages

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1.7K Points

My big question is will this lead to people requesting to remove movies, or tv shows or video games? Will imdb then have to comply with them?

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1.7K Points

That is my greatest concern..

505 Messages

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19.7K Points

Ideologues are already requesting - no, demanding - that certain movies, TV shows and video games be removed from IMDb for political reasons. The question is not whether the demands will be made, the question is whether IMDb will cave in to them.

54 Messages

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1.7K Points

Exactly.. at that point, what use is a database if all you’re gonna do is remove information from it? You cannot be the Internet’s most comprehensive database about movies if you end up removing data..

45 Messages

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1.2K Points

Deadnaming people—and in the case of this specific policy change people who were not widely known to the public by their deadname—does not add to a movie database. However, it does assist discrimination against trans people in employment, housing, etc.

54 Messages

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1.7K Points

Look, as long as people don’t start removing films, tv, or video games.. then fine i guess

795 Messages

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23.6K Points

Wow. talk about making it personal.
And what does this sentence me PPP?
"You are talking about the trivial facts about  fantasy."

795 Messages

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23.6K Points

LOL. You really seem to be taking this very personally when to the best of my recollection of what I've seen that's not been the angle.
So somebody taking the position that true info should be kept is a bad person to be attacked personally.  All at the same time you argue that keeping accurate info is de facto attacking someone.
And criticizing someone personally by their # of posts which you've had 10 posts in one day would mean that you're living on here.

And then to top it all off you pull out the race card to try and shame someone. Be proud of your position, be respectful, and quit trying to drag the argument into the muck.

54 Messages

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1.7K Points

As i said.. my only issue is what this could lead to.. people requesting to take down their names.. then their ages, what happens when people start demanding their films, tv shows or video games be taken down??

54 Messages

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1.7K Points

As i said.. my only issue is what this could lead to.. people requesting to take down their names.. then their ages, what happens when people start demanding their films, tv shows or video games be taken down??

795 Messages

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23.6K Points

What happened to posts disappearing??? Very odd.
And PPP you are ignoring my question about the sentence I didn't understand because it looked like it got clipped. I'm trying to listen to your argument, but you aren't making it easy.

795 Messages

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23.6K Points

What happened to posts disappearing??? Very odd.
And PPP you are ignoring my question about the sentence I didn't understand because it looked like it got clipped. I'm trying to listen to your argument, but you aren't making it easy.

795 Messages

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23.6K Points

I've not expressed any opinion regarding this new policy because I don't understand all the angles of it. (Until yesterday I had never heard of the term deadnaming).
So thx for calling me an asshole. Been awhile that I've had a teen throwing names at me and it's just as funny now as it was then.  All you're doing is prove my point that you're taking this personally which destroys your ability to make any good argument.

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23.6K Points

My bad. Sorry 15 posts in 60 minutes. That's not overkill. LOL
So in less than an hour you started calling me curse names and going to the lowest denominator of using race baiting.
I was in the navy, attached to marines, so trust me I've been called everything in the book and it doesn't bother me in the least.
I'll at least say this, Ed can be sharp-tongued, but don't recall him calling people names.

But if it makes you feel better PPP, go ahead and call me names. I can tell this is a very personal, troubling issue for you for which I'm sorry for you. I'd really like to understand the angles as it's not something I'm familiar with. I've only known one person who was trans and that was about 20 years ago.  She was a friend and a fellow vet, and times or people were different because none of us cared. So it's something I'm ignorant about, but would like to understand.  So try and make a cogent, non-personal counter-argument vs saying someone is a curse word, bad person, or a bigot.

93 Messages

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1.8K Points

Can confirm that Ed Jones really enjoys transphobia.

93 Messages

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1.8K Points

Get your ----- Oscar man, I bet it'll floor audiences

795 Messages

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23.6K Points

Would you rather me make up having a dozen trans friends?? Again you're just attacking someone. And PPP I've only seen one post where you've tried to make any argument, but you started it off with cursing. And deny it all you want, your post did call me a name.
Frankly this isn't an issue that impacts me regardless. My friend committed suicide but it had nothing to do with being trans but instead with ptsd. But I should also say that I may have met other people that were trans but didn't know.  It's not something I care about. Kind of like someone saying they're taking a particular point of view and being nasty from the start. It makes me care much less about their position. Thus far I've not seen anything that is persuasive that the actual names in credits shouldn't be listed.


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62.7K Points

Cursing is rather unbecoming Kati.

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62.7K Points

Cursing is rather unbecoming Kati.

93 Messages

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1.8K Points

Inspirational!

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1.8K Points

Misgendering, that's a new one.

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PPP/snowflake,
I didn't see this until now, and was going to ignore it, but just for the record she left a note.  She had served in Vietnam and was haunted by what someone who has been in a war is haunted by. I know you know nothing of this because none of your comments reflect anything indicative you ever served, but that was your choice as was mine, my friend's, and many others who choose to serve so you could voice opinions.
As to the trans issue impacting the suicide, I guess I choose to assume that being in war had nothing related to her trans gender because if it did, then the whole concept of trans would be blown up because it's supposed to be about something more fundamental than just a tragic issue.
So again you fail to speak with anything inteligent, and no matter what name you choose to be here as, you fail to make any persuasive arguments as to the actual harm done to anyone is.
In fact I found a blog that gave me the best argument related to removing birth names and it's based on that unlike a stage name, someone who is trans it's not a stage name but a more fundamental name change as it's associated with a sexual identity change. Now that argument alone doesn't convince me that imdb should change it's policy, but it's a good argument and start.
See unlike you, I like to be informed and persuaded before making a decision.
And again I'm going to ignore you, although I wish I could just block you.

93 Messages

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1.8K Points

2 y ago

Cranky because you're transphobic?

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135.9K Points

 
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Princess Perky Pants
Joined community on August 14, 2019
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Mrs Potato
Joined community on August 15, 2019
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Mrs Potato :
I like how this forum is censored.
.


1.9K Messages

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62.7K Points

Snowflake, Kati (and even Princess Perky Pants): You guys just keep on being disrespectful without adding any new information or points of view. I think there are quite some issues you all have to work out for yourselves, away from this forum. I won't respond to any more of your posts because I don't see the point in it, but I really do hope that in real life you are not so extremely bitter as you seem to be on this forum.

4.4K Messages

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135.9K Points


Mrs Potato
Joined community on August 15, 2019
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Snowflake Especial
Joined community on August 15, 2019
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.


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1.7K Points

2 y ago

Not sure.. i’m still trying to figure that out

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2 y ago

 
On or Off topic here ? ?

Caitlyn Jenner
https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0421063/
Born: October 28, 1949 in Mount Kisco, New York, USA
Birth Name : William Bruce Jenner

In June of 2015,
she completed her public gender transition
and introduced herself as Caitlyn Jenner
with an article and photo shoot in Vanity Fair magazine.

Actress: Movie (5 credits)
2014 - The Hungover Games  - Skip Bayflick (as Bruce Jenner)
2011/I - Jack and Jill - Bruce Jenner (as Bruce Jenner)
1999 - The Big Tease - Bruce Jenner (as Bruce Jenner)
1990 - A Man Called Sarge - Special Appearance (as Bruce Jenner)
1980 - Can't Stop the Music - Ron White (as Bruce Jenner)
- - -

Bruce Jenner Was an Actor way back then...
.

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23.6K Points

This raises a question I've not seen before. What about any pics?

Champion

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230K Points

Princess Perky Pants, not arguing that, but there were credits which said Bruce Jenner. There's certain legality of name and credits in this world which I'm not too happy about myself, so saying that "there was no Bruce" just does not work in this world, figuartively. And yes, we live in an imperfect crapsack dystopian world in which most of Earth's population still have way too much problems which they should not. We should not have as much problems with legally confirming who we are and who we are not as well as having that much problems thinking about credits in movies.  

Using your logic actual person named Divine never existed, but that's how Harris Glen Milstead was nearly always credited. And just in case: no, Divine reportedly never had GID, so in this case his birth name applies. Although IMDb trivia is perpetually confused and refers to Divine as both her and him, depending on perspective.  

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1.7K Points

2 y ago

Dear Imdb,

Please continue with your policy, keep all valid information on this website permanently

1.9K Messages

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62.7K Points

keep all valid information on this website permanently

I second this.

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1.7K Points

2 y ago

Those articles I presented earlier have remained the same, so maybe the new policy won’t have any affect on the valid info never getting removed from the site..